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    Thread: Do I have micro fish lice and chilo?

    1. #1
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
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      Do I have micro fish lice and chilo?

      Hello friends:

      Today I took a good look at my nice collection of small koi I bought/bred this summer, and I found that 4 of them had lesions, while the others (totally 31 small koi and 4 goldfish) were fine.

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      I scrapped and microscopied, and the magnification is 100X.

      I found these guys which look like chilodonella, see video below. I only found like 1 or 2 per scrape, so they are not so many and should not cause problem:

      https://youtu.be/7h5YlqBL_jo

      Then I also found small Star Trek Enterprise-kind of things, look also like micro-style fish lice. The "tail" can be opened like a pair of scissor, which can be seen in the video below, and their seem to do filtration with their mouth. They are not so many either, one was found in a scrape from the body and 2 were found in the scrape from gills. It may be cross-contamination as I used the same spoon for scrapping (bad practice!):

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      Video of the micro fish lice/Star Trek Enterprise:
      https://youtu.be/Sd-UTm4cJsU
      https://youtu.be/y7YC5wSZzbk

      Anyone please tell me what they are and what is the best way to kill them. I have potassium permanangate, formalin-malachite green mix, malachite green, and fluke-M.

      Thank you so much!

    2. #2
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
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      By the way, the micro Star Trek Enterprise is flat just like fish lice, but I cannot see the two black eyes fish lice are well-known for.

      The lesions look like those caused by fluke this summer, but I did not find any fluke in totally 6 scrapes on 2 fish, 3 from body and 3 from gill.
      Last edited by SimonW; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:48 PM.

    3. #3
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      You have the mrdication, which are you going to treat them with?

      I would go the formalin and malachite green mix. Safest,and effective.

      Don't have worry about by-passing the filtration.

      2nd treatment in 4 days

      Add aeration or a pump breaking the surface of the water to improve the aeration.

      Garfield
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    4. #4
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      You have the mrdication, which are you going to treat them with?

      I would go the formalin and malachite green mix. Safest,and effective.

      Don't have worry about by-passing the filtration.

      2nd treatment in 4 days

      Add aeration or a pump breaking the surface of the water to improve the aeration.

      Garfield
      Thanks for advice!

      I wonder if you know what this Star-Trek-Enterprise-with-a-scissor-tail thing is? I guess that it is not fish louse, but can it be an other type av parasites?

    5. #5
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      Top right corner

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      Type in Microscope pics

      Follow Cindy, She is number one regarding the pests.

      Garfield
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    6. #6
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      Parasite, pictures, slides.

      Garfield
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      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      spotting chilo at 100x would be difficult.

    9. #9
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
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      I have started the treatment with flushing the filters (pressure filter and sponge flow-through filter) and then adding 3 ppm of PP. Because my daughter required 90% of my attention I have not got the chance to monitor the color so that I can add one additional dose.

      Tomorrow or day after tomorrow I will move out the koi with lesion to an un-used aquarium for closer observation and treatment. I am thinking about topical treatment with iodine, then f-MG.

      I wonder:

      Is PP and f-MG effective against crustacean parasites? The micro-Enterprise thing looks like crustacean to me.

    10. #10
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      Furthermore, I think that I should do more scrapings tomorrow to be sure, before I use any medicine that is more specific or is antibiotics.

    11. #11
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      Update:

      I have done more scrapings, as thoroughly as I could, and under microscope I did not find anything moving. So I conclude that the Enterprise-thing is not parasite but some bug living with the fish.

      Probably the suffering of the 4 small koi is indeed caused by bad water quality. A lesson learned! Will increase water change.

      A question:

      Is it a good or bad idea to flush the pressure filters and the sponge flow-through filters once a week? More frequent or less frequent? Thanks!

    12. #12
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      Flush clean using your pond water.

      Mains water contains chlorine harmful to the filter residents.

      Garfield.
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    13. #13
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      I am a firm believer in the once a week minimum for water changes, though sometimes in the winter, I was not able to do those due to frozen water hoses. The issue is the dilution, primarily of nitrates, as the filters should be processing the ammonia and nitrite. The only way to keep the nitrates down is through dilution.

      For bead filters and some of the sponge type filters, the cleaning of the filter is a reversal of flow through the media and out to waste, so using the filter cleaning as a means of accomplishing a minimum 10% water change serves two purposes, and utilizes pond water as the cleaning media. As was mentioned, use of hose water, unless you are on a well, means subjecting the filter bacteria to doses of chlorine or chloramine, which are put in our drinking water supplies to control the growth of bacteria in our water. I don't know how much it takes to kill a filter, as PP does the same thing and I have allowed PP to flow through my bead filters and not noticed a setback of the bio bacteria.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    14. #14
      cindy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      Top right corner

      Advanced search

      Type in Microscope pics

      Follow Cindy, She is number one regarding the pests.

      Garfield
      I think you have harmless rotifers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRZ64_lZf_8

      From Dr. J https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh6Cw9Z0pxg
      Last edited by cindy; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:00 PM.

    15. #15
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      If he had rotifers on his fish, would he not have picked them up when he scoped the fish?

      Maybe they come and go?

      Garfield.
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    16. #16
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      If he had rotifers on his fish, would he not have picked them up when he scoped the fish?

      Maybe they come and go?

      Garfield.
      Hello Garfield:

      I did not mention that after the first post I did a 3 ppm PP-treatment, which might have killed of these bugs.

    17. #17
      cindy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      If he had rotifers on his fish, would he not have picked them up when he scoped the fish?

      Maybe they come and go?

      Garfield.
      I've seen videos of rotifers eating algae on young fish. I'm in a really cool pond lab group. So many different types. Sharing this video. I would have guessed flukes on some of these into you look close https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3PLUeD_JAg
      Last edited by cindy; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:26 PM.

    18. #18
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      I've seen videos of rotifers eating algae on young fish. I'm in a really cool pond lab group. So many different types. Sharing this video. I would have guessed flukes on some of these into you look close https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3PLUeD_JAg
      Thanks Cindy!

      That is a great video on rotifers. The microscoping is impressive!

    19. #19
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      If I scrape and scope somebody's fish and can't find anything, I like to pull some goo from the biofilter so they can learn how to use the scope. So much stuff alive, I put it back. It's like a miniature zoo.

    20. #20
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      If I scrape and scope somebody's fish and can't find anything, I like to pull some goo from the biofilter so they can learn how to use the scope. So much stuff alive, I put it back. It's like a miniature zoo.
      That is a great idea! I am a biology teacher and some times I fail with protozoa culture for my students. Now I will never fail again!

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