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    Thread: Popping eyes.

    1. #21
      Rhern is offline Member
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      1 time a day for 3 days with 30% water changes

    2. #22
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      Well I guess I will just follow Mr. Peters advise and stop treatment. ( especially since he is the only one that’s offered ANY real advise).

      Tough to get good help on this site. A lot of speculation and endless questions with no real advise on how to proceed.

      Thanks I’ll guess I’ll figure it out!

    3. #23
      two_wheeled is online now Senior Member
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      Don't be too quick to give up on the group Rhern. There are a lot of extremely helpful people here, but some like me don't check in every day.
      You didn't post your water parameters. That usually helps if you could do that. Good luck! I hope this clears up for you quickly! And I really like that koi.
      -Steve in Phx.
      Novice Extraordinaire

    4. #24
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      As for the use of salt, I prefer to stay away from salt except to alleviate the problems with nitrites, which needs about 0.1 to 0.15%, or about one pound per hundred gallons, and for control of dropsy symptoms on fish with large ulcers where the skin, which acts as a membrane between the pond and the flesh of the fish to keep water out of the fish, so water enters at a rate due to osmotic pressure faster than the kidneys can remove it. Salt with the large ulcers at 0.8-0.9% will make the pond and the blood have nearly the same salt level, so water doesn't go into the fish causing the fish to bloat, due to kidneys not being able to keep up. Eyes popping out is one sign of dropsy, which can have two or more causes, one being too much water coming in for the kidneys to remove and the other being infection affecting the kidneys. It can also be a sign of Mycobacterium fortuitum (Tuberculosis). As Russ stated, it could be bacterial, and the cure could require antibiotics. I like the injectible antibiotics Baytril or Amikacin as preferred, but if you don't have a source for these, then Tricide Neo is a close runner up. I prefer to use it as a spray, but following the directions for a bath. The fish can be anesthetized and then kept thoroughly wetted with the Tricide Neo with much less used and wasted for the treatments.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    5. #25
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      Could it be just reaction to treatment and if so should it subside if it was reaction to treatment.

      I have 3 koi showing similar signs all after the third treatment of f mg.

    6. #26
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      It could be, but I have never seen it. You could take a wait and see position and see if it worsens or gets better and base treatment on the outcome. That would be the way I generally approached things, but have the necessary treatments on hand if it is determined to go the next step.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
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      Richard

    7. #27
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      Thanks for the quick and sound advise Rich I was looking for the Tricide Neo to have in hand. would like to dip in a 30 gallon stock tank I have. By my calculation it’s about $450 to do that. $70 to do 5 gallons ? Is that right

    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rhern View Post
      Could it be just reaction to treatment and if so should it subside if it was reaction to treatment.

      I have 3 koi showing similar signs all after the third treatment of f mg.
      Yes, burns like this can easily happen during treatment. It usually happens when the fish swims through a “cloud” of the medication after it is put into the water. It is much more caustic before it is diluted into the pond water. One way to avoid this is by putting air stones into the pond during treatment.


      I would wait a few days and see if the “white” on the eyes goes away.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    9. #29
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      I have had Koi get “white” eyes from bacterial issues and have had it clear up by using salt. Wait and see what happens before trying anything else though.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    10. #30
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      Russ thanks for chiming in.
      When you said cloud I remember that’s what i did differently. On Monday I was i a bit of a hurry’s before work and I put the entire dose in front of my main return as opposed to distributing it around like I usually did.
      Oh man!! I can just see a couple of these guys possibly getting blasted with a concentrated amount in there face.

      What’s an affordable option for bacteria treatment to have on hand? I have 30 gallon to dip in:

    11. #31
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZengVPkPsY

      Initial white slime could be just a normal reaction from introducing new fish. If no other stress going and fish are acting as usual they would have/should have adapted to it.
      The addition of oxidizing chemicals was an additional stress (to fish/filters) that likely lead to internal bacterial infection. If this is the case popping eyes is pre-dropsy.
      Have you fed anything more that ordinary pellets?
      What mechanical and biological filters are you running? Do you have a skimmer?
      Did you inspect the entire body including the vent, the gills and inside it's mouth?
      How about a video of the entire pond set up?
      I have to say that it is usually best to give advise when you have the practical experience first. Slime is not usually a normal reaction to adding new fish. If this were the case I would have hundreds of cases of this. I have never seen that happen just by adding new fish into a good system. Slime coat is a defense mechanism and happens when something bothers a fish. Medications, parasites, bacteria etc.

      If the addition of oxidizing medications is an additional stressor that leads to internal bacterial infections that then lead to dropsy I would never be able to keep fish alive. How do you come up with this stuff and why?

      Is it those videos you watch? If it is I would recommend you stop watching them. Not all those vets have the answers, I am not saying I do either, but I had a customer that paid that vet a couple of thousand dollars to come to their home and diagnose a pond issue that was killing a lot of fish. When the remedy was not working my customers called me and described what was going on. I told them what I thought it was, they came by my place, we had a long talk about what to do, I gave them a couple of dollars worth of meds to put in their pond and three days later their issue was gone. The fix I recommended also included salt at 0.7%.

      Have you ever dealt with Koi that had “white” eyes from chemical burns or from bacterial issues? I have and this looks like a chemical burn. I have also dealt with it when it is bacterial.
      Last edited by Russell Peters; 12-15-2020 at 10:13 PM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    12. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rhern View Post
      Russ thanks for chiming in.
      When you said cloud I remember that’s what i did differently. On Monday I was i a bit of a hurry’s before work and I put the entire dose in front of my main return as opposed to distributing it around like I usually did.
      Oh man!! I can just see a couple of these guys possibly getting blasted with a concentrated amount in there face.

      What’s an affordable option for bacteria treatment to have on hand? I have 30 gallon to dip in:
      For most things, that are simple, I usually just does the whole pond with Oxolinic Acid and salt at 0.7% for three days. Sometimes the salt alone is enough.


      Remember, experience matters.
      Last edited by Russell Peters; 12-15-2020 at 10:18 PM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    13. #33
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      [QUOTE=Russell Peters;2768584]For most things, that are simple, I usually just does the whole pond with Oxolinic Acid and salt at 0.7% for three days. Sometimes the salt alone is enough.


      Remember, experience matters.[/Q

      I DOSE MY POND USING THIS METHOD..

      NO CONCENTRATION OF MEDICATION ANYWHERE IN THE POND


      To dose my pond, I position a 3/4 hp pool pump on the edge of the pond.

      I connect a heavy flexible plastic hose to the inlet of the pump with a plastic strainer over the end of the pipe.

      I hang it just below the surface of the water.

      The outlet of the pump has a 90 degree long raidius PVC adapter elbow screwed into the pump thread.

      I attach a short length of 11/2 to 2 inch plastic pipe on the bend, and swing it to water to the centre of the pond. or left and right to distribute the water evenly across the surface of the

      pond

      Prime the pump and get it pumping over the pond.

      I use a short length of 1/4" flexible silicone aquarium pipe to deliver the medication into the inlet of the pump suction pipe,situated just below the surface of the pond water.

      I attach a weight to one end of the the silicone pipe to hold in the bottom of the bucket.

      Mix up the medication in the CLEAN POND BUCKET

      Lower the weighted pipe into the medication and clear the pipe of all air,

      Pinch the end of the pipe, drag the length over the edge of the bucket,to below the bucket bottom and get the medication siphoning /running into the pump inlet below surface

      Swing the short length of delivery pipe across the pond surface to get an even diluted mix in the pond.

      If you us a Permaganate mix, you can gauge, by the leaving color of water from the pump and adjust for the length of time to medicate.

      Garfield.


      I
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    14. #34
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rhern View Post
      Tomorrow would be my fifth day of treatment and I am worried about dosing again with F mg

      Could you take a picture of the recommended dosage for F mg as described on the container.

      Garfield
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    15. #35
      kimini is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rhern View Post
      Well I guess I will just follow Mr. Peters advise and stop treatment. ( especially since he is the only one that’s offered ANY real advise).

      Tough to get good help on this site. A lot of speculation and endless questions with no real advise on how to proceed.

      Thanks I’ll guess I’ll figure it out!
      Now that you bring this up, in another thread, I asked where to get feather rock in my area and noticed that you didn't respond. Why not? Answer that and there you go.
      Last edited by kimini; 12-16-2020 at 01:18 PM.

    16. #36
      Rhern is offline Member
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      Sir I posted in an emergency thread.
      When some one is posting in an emergency thread it’s not a joke. If we are posting in an emergency thread it’s because we are all ready stressed and don’t know where to go.

      Then you have people posting endless useless questions and never actually get anywhere and don’t help (probably because they do not know what they are doing)

      I give Great THANKS to the ones that obviously KNOW what they are doing and helped me out.

      It is better to not say anything if you don’t know what your doing. Especially in an emergency thread.

    17. #37
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      Just got home and checked up on the squad and whiteness in the eyes is decreasing and everyone looking active and happy.

      Fingers crossed no further surprises.

      What is a brand For the Oxolinic Acid? Id like to keep that near by or at least know where to get it just in case.

      When I Google it this is what comes up
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    18. #38
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      As I stated for the Tricide Neo, I like to knock the fish out and keep the fish wetted with a spray bottle of the medicine, in essence following the directions, except not doing the bath. The first time I used it, I did the bath with the 5 gallon size in a large plastic fish shipping bag. It was my understanding that you could filter the shed slime coat out by filtering through coffee filters. Trying to filter 5 gallons through a coffee filter takes time. Then the mix needs to be refrigerated for future use, and putting 5 gallons in the fridge is another issue, but the big one is getting the 5 gallons back to pond temperature before putting the fish back in the bath. The other alternative is to through out all of the mix each day, but the directions call for treating 3 days in a row, so it rapidly becomes very expensive.

      Mixing 1 packet of the 1 gallon size in a gallon of distilled water and pouring one quart into a spray bottle allowed me to take care of quite a few fish without a lot of waste.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    19. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rhern View Post
      Just got home and checked up on the squad and whiteness in the eyes is decreasing and everyone looking active and happy.

      Fingers crossed no further surprises.

      What is a brand For the Oxolinic Acid? Id like to keep that near by or at least know where to get it just in case.

      When I Google it this is what comes up
      Oxolinic acid is a white powder. Many dealers carry it but they all have the wrong dose rate on the container cause they don't know what they are doing. You can buy it from them but still use the proper dose. It is 100mg per 250 gallons of water which is 1 gram per 2,500 gallons. It is a very small amount but the correct dose. Most dealers have it listed as a teaspoon for 30 gallons or something stupid like that. You can buy it from the link below but please do not use that dose rate.



      http://www.cascade-pond-supply.com/O...id-p-1150.html
      Last edited by Russell Peters; 12-16-2020 at 10:21 PM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    20. #40
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      �� now i know why you came up with that spray method RichToxBox. $$$

      Thanks again guys!!!!

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