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    Thread: Koi have started dying while in temporary holding pond.

    1. #21
      Hope J is online now Senior Member
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      It's hard keeping Koi in small pools, trust me, it takes a lot of time and effort to keep the water clean and the parameters normal :/

    2. #22
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      With chloramine treated tap water, it has both chlorine and ammonia, so as you say, changing water will not bring the ammonia level down. As I mentioned earlier, the Seachem Ammonia Alert Card will show if the ammonia is in the toxic ammonia form or the non-toxic ammonium form by showing safe, elevated, harmful or dangerous levels of the toxic ammonia and will allow you to use one of the treatments to neutralize the ammonia to ammonium. These are typically available at Petco, Petsmart, or most aquarium shops. Moving small numbers of fish from the 2000 to the 4000 gallons pond and allowing time for it to develop viable bacteria colonies will reduce the stress on the 2000 and not over stress the 4000 gallon pond. Filter bacteria are dependent on ammonia and nitrite to thrive and without a supply will fall back in population but should rebound faster than you will find with new ponds with new filters where it can take 6 or 8 weeks to mature.

      In the mean time, keep an eye on the big one for development of sores indicating bacterial infections. If the sores are improving, leave the fish alone, but if they get worse prepare to treat.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    3. #23
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      Remember it does not help at all to add bacteria to a fishless pond unless you supply the bacteria with "food" in the form of ammonia. I would fill the new pond let it run for a day or so, empty all the water out and refill, dechlorinate, match the water temperatures, and add a few of your least favorite fish. It takes 4-6 weeks to cycle a regular filter, but only about 2-3 weeks to cycle a shower. Your best bet for active actual filter bacteria is to order Ki Nitrifier or Fritzyme bacteria. They come refrigerated.
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    4. #24
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      Also you need to keep track of your KH. KH is used up in the filtration process, your filters will not cycle without adequate KH.
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    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      In the mean time, keep an eye on the big one for development of sores indicating bacterial infections. If the sores are improving, leave the fish alone, but if they get worse prepare to treat.
      So, she doesn't seem better. She was doing fine for a little while, but she's begun re-isolating herself. She's the only fish that is having issues right now. Here's what she looks like:

      Name:  T1zYN3F.jpg
Views: 65
Size:  184.5 KB

      She doesn't have any immediate sores that I can see, but she doesn't look good at all. She's obviously supposed to be a bright orange and white. The white flecks on her are clearly not supposed to be there. I have set up a mini-quarantine tank inside that is only 20-25gal. I can't get anything larger than that quickly.

      Should I move her to the quarantine and do a .3% salt bath and heat the water to 82degrees? The temp dropped to 50 degrees here last night, which is why I'm more concerned than normal right now. I can get a small tank heater, but not a large heater for the pond.

    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by Darthfuzzy View Post
      So, she doesn't seem better. She was doing fine for a little while, but she's begun re-isolating herself. She's the only fish that is having issues right now. Here's what she looks like:

      Name:  T1zYN3F.jpg
Views: 65
Size:  184.5 KB

      She doesn't have any immediate sores that I can see, but she doesn't look good at all. She's obviously supposed to be a bright orange and white. The white flecks on her are clearly not supposed to be there. I have set up a mini-quarantine tank inside that is only 20-25gal. I can't get anything larger than that quickly.

      Should I move her to the quarantine and do a .3% salt bath and heat the water to 82degrees? The temp dropped to 50 degrees here last night, which is why I'm more concerned than normal right now. I can get a small tank heater, but not a large heater for the pond.
      I would not move the fish to a small tank. I would order Proform C and Fluke M and begin a full shotgun treatment for parasites. And as stated, KH should be over 100 and better at over 150 to assist the cycle of the filters and stability of the pH.

      Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      I would not move the fish to a small tank. I would order Proform C and Fluke M and begin a full shotgun treatment for parasites. And as stated, KH should be over 100 and better at over 150 to assist the cycle of the filters and stability of the pH.

      Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
      Technical question - I have Eco Labs BSDT32 Broad Spectrum Disease Treatment on hand. Can I use this instead of the Proform C? It appears to be Malachite Green + Formalin?

      Additionally, Fluke M only seems to be available from small retailers. Can I get this on Amazon quickly?

    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by Darthfuzzy View Post
      Technical question - I have Eco Labs BSDT32 Broad Spectrum Disease Treatment on hand. Can I use this instead of the Proform C? It appears to be Malachite Green + Formalin?

      Additionally, Fluke M only seems to be available from small retailers. Can I get this on Amazon quickly?
      Amazon is slow AF right now, try Ebay

    9. #29
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      When I had a problem with flukes last summer, I was unable to find Fluke-M here in the US. Finally got it from eBay in the UK and was able to order it with no problem but it takes over a week to get here. Since then I noticed that a company called Cascade Pond Supply in Roseburg, Oregon on the West Coast appears to have it online. I haven't ordered from them before, but was amazed when I noticed it a few weeks ago. Their shipping times might be faster. Hope that helps.

      http://www.cascade-pond-supply.com/K...-M-p-1005.html
      Last edited by SJK; 12-01-2020 at 02:17 AM.

    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by SJK View Post
      When I had a problem with flukes last summer, I was unable to find fluke am here in the US. Finally got it from eBay in the UK and was able to order it with no problem but it takes over a week to get here. Since then I noticed that a company called Cascade Pond Supply in Roseburg, Oregon on the West Coast appears to have it online. I haven't ordered from them before, but was amazed when I noticed it a few weeks ago. Their shipping times might be faster. Hope that helps.

      http://www.cascade-pond-supply.com/K...-M-p-1005.html


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    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by Darthfuzzy View Post
      Technical question - I have Eco Labs BSDT32 Broad Spectrum Disease Treatment on hand. Can I use this instead of the Proform C? It appears to be Malachite Green + Formalin?

      Additionally, Fluke M only seems to be available from small retailers. Can I get this on Amazon quickly?
      Yes, the Broad Spectrum Disease Treatment is an acceptable alternative. If you can't get rapid shipment of the Fluke M, Prazi is an acceptable alternative. Prazi needs to be wetted with the BSDT or vodka to get it to go into the water column. It seems to be hydrophobic and will not mix readily with water.

      Can you provide KH values or pH morning and evening, which will give us some idea of the water stability.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
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      Richard

    12. #32
      Darthfuzzy is offline Junior Member
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      Well, unfortunately the last big koi just passed away.

      I went and checked on her earlier this morning and she was on her side - she was still breathing so I was hopeful. 4-5 hours later came out to find her not moving. She must have only died about 10-20 minutes ago. Poked her a little and her gills aren't moving and she's completely non-responsive. She fought until the very end. I was hopeful for some progress, but in the end, I think the damage was too much.

      Of course, when it rains it pours because the canister filter I'm using just completely cracked on one side...

      Thanks everyone for the help. I wish I had better news to this outcome, but the other fish appear to be 100% fine. I just lost 5-6 big koi - including all the ones that we loved so dearly.

    13. #33
      Hope J is online now Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Darthfuzzy View Post
      Well, unfortunately the last big koi just passed away.

      I went and checked on her earlier this morning and she was on her side - she was still breathing so I was hopeful. 4-5 hours later came out to find her not moving. She must have only died about 10-20 minutes ago. Poked her a little and her gills aren't moving and she's completely non-responsive. She fought until the very end. I was hopeful for some progress, but in the end, I think the damage was too much.

      Of course, when it rains it pours because the canister filter I'm using just completely cracked on one side...

      Thanks everyone for the help. I wish I had better news to this outcome, but the other fish appear to be 100% fine. I just lost 5-6 big koi - including all the ones that we loved so dearly.
      I'm so sorry

    14. #34
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      Sorry, this hobby can sometimes be so heartbreaking.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

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