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  • Results 1 to 14 of 14

    Thread: Black Tancho Spots

    1. #1
      Spartan is offline Senior Member
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      Black Tancho Spots/ kuro tancho

      Had not done a spawn in a couple years. My kids are older (so am I!) and busier, so interest and energy had waned a bit, but the pandemic gave us an opportunity and time. So we did a spawn this year. This was relatively late in the summer. Kohaku x Showa.
      Still growing them out and moved a large cohort inside for the winter.

      The interesting thing was we had several dozen with black tancho spots. I believe they are called Kuro Tancho. I know we donít see these offered from breeders very often. I suspect that the breeders donít select them (red tanchos obviously being an entirely separate entity). On the other hand I donít recall seeing them come up very often in our amateur breeder threads either. So perhaps they are less common... in any case here are a few examples.
      I can tell you that the spots vary. Some are darker, some have an exclamation point type look, and they differ in diameter and placement.
      I really think that with some luck a couple of these might develop into very attractive koi. We shall see. Thoughts?
      Attached Images Attached Images   
      Last edited by Spartan; 11-24-2020 at 02:32 PM.

    2. #2
      Spartan is offline Senior Member
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      I should add there are a few all white with just the black spot but For some reason we didn’t get photos. I’ll have to fish out a few later.

    3. #3
      Fishmover is offline Supporting Member
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      Those should be fun to watch grow on. Can't wait to see updates on this herd.


      Been ponding for a while, with lots of successes, and lots of failures.

    4. #4
      Orlando is offline Senior Member
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      It's going to be interesting to watch these grow but the dark spot in the head will change with time as the koi grow and the skin thickens, but nice start.

    5. #5
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
      Had not done a spawn in a couple years. My kids are older (so am I!) and busier, so interest and energy had waned a bit, but the pandemic gave us an opportunity and time. So we did a spawn this year. This was relatively late in the summer. Kohaku x Showa.
      Still growing them out and moved a large cohort inside for the winter.

      The interesting thing was we had several dozen with black tancho spots. I believe they are called Kuro Tancho. I know we don’t see these offered from breeders very often. I suspect that the breeders don’t select them (red tanchos obviously being an entirely separate entity). On the other hand I don’t recall seeing them come up very often in our amateur breeder threads either. So perhaps they are less common... in any case here are a few examples.
      I can tell you that the spots vary. Some are darker, some have an exclamation point type look, and they differ in diameter and placement.
      I really think that with some luck a couple of these might develop into very attractive koi. We shall see. Thoughts?
      Do fish have brains?

      Where else would they be?

      Garfield
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    6. #6
      Fishmover is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      Do fish have brains?

      Where else would they be?

      Garfield
      Are you implying the black spot is the fish's brain? I don't think that is the case here, and the black is pigmentation


      Been ponding for a while, with lots of successes, and lots of failures.

    7. #7
      Spartan is offline Senior Member
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      Those are definitely not their brains, and definitely are areas of pigmentation.

      I did find an old thread where someone else posted something similar. Someone who had done a lot of breeding commented and thought that most of these would fade. There was no follow up on it though.

      We all have seen countless koi with black on their heads. What I thought made this interesting was the kuro tancho spot. We had about 8,000 fry that we raised to this size. Only a few dozen looked like this, we kept most of them to grow out further.

      Orlando, have you run across this?

    8. #8
      Orlando is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
      Those are definitely not their brains, and definitely are areas of pigmentation.

      I did find an old thread where someone else posted something similar. Someone who had done a lot of breeding commented and thought that most of these would fade. There was no follow up on it though.

      We all have seen countless koi with black on their heads. What I thought made this interesting was the kuro tancho spot. We had about 8,000 fry that we raised to this size. Only a few dozen looked like this, we kept most of them to grow out further.

      Orlando, have you run across this?
      Yes, on my Goshiki spawns all the ones that are going to turn into Goshiki they all have that mark, having said that am not saying these are Goshiki pretty much anything that's got Asagi in their background will exhibit the chobo sumi mark but with time it fades away am pretty shure that none of these will keep that mark on the head. I guess the most simple way of explaining that mark on the head it's a stage of their development.
      Last edited by Orlando; 11-25-2020 at 08:57 PM.

    9. #9
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      Yes, on my Goshiki spawns all the ones that are going to turn into Goshiki they all have that mark, having said that am not saying these are Goshiki pretty much anything that's got Asagi in their background will exhibit the chobo sumi mark but with time it fades away am pretty shure that none of these will keep that mark on the head. I guess the most simple way of explaining that mark on the head it's a stage of their development.
      Maybe the growing over and thickening of the skull plate?

      The biggest baby in the bottom bowl at the bottom edge, has a pronounced dark sausage shaped patch where it's innards would be positioned,is that pigmentation or its last meal showing through

      it's glass body?

      Are the large dark visible eye balls in their sockets, a pigmentation?

      Garfield.
      Last edited by coolwon; 11-25-2020 at 10:01 PM.
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    10. #10
      Spartan is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      Yes, on my Goshiki spawns all the ones that are going to turn into Goshiki they all have that mark, having said that am not saying these are Goshiki pretty much anything that's got Asagi in their background will exhibit the chobo sumi mark but with time it fades away am pretty shure that none of these will keep that mark on the head. I guess the most simple way of explaining that mark on the head it's a stage of their development.
      Well, I certainly appreciate your thoughts but I hope youíre wrong!

      No goshiki in my pond. Have an asagi female but she wasnít used.

      The female oyagoi is a Hoshikin kohaku, Dainichi Showa males. Canít say beyond that whatís in their genes.

    11. #11
      Spartan is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      Maybe the growing over and thickening of the skull plate?

      The biggest baby in the bottom bowl at the bottom edge, has a pronounced dark sausage shaped patch where it's innards would be positioned,is that pigmentation or its last meal showing through

      it's glass body?

      Are the large dark visible eye balls in their sockets, a pigmentation?

      Garfield.
      Not sure what youíre seeing with regard to the innards?

      One observation is that all of these fry with the kuro tancho spots have black eyes. Their kohaku siblings right now have more translucent heads with those very common bluish silvery eyes which later become white.

    12. #12
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      I am seeing translucent fry at this age.

      Garfield
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    13. #13
      KTownKoinut is offline Senior Member
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      Try not to get too attached....cull time must be come'n...... Oooops! Sorry.... lol

    14. #14
      NaturalK is offline Senior Member
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      From a youtube video I watched from a senbetsu, the dark spot is usually an indication of goshiki...

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