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  • Results 1 to 14 of 14

    Thread: Vortex filter design flaw

    1. #1
      CharlieQ is offline Senior Member
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      Vortex filter design flaw

      I recently installed a bottom drain to my 12 ft round 5ft. Deep pond. I put a diy sieve barrel in the ground with a submersible pump feeding from the top to a pressurized filter with some success.
      I recently ripped it out and installed a vortex barrel than to a smaller holding tank to house submersible 5200 gph to a birdman sand and gravel,out to a waterfall and or tpr.
      My problem is holding tank is emptying too quickly. No matter what size pump i use.
      I put a ball valve in front of sng filter to slow the flow, but it also slows down vortex flow therefore causing low flow n improper filtering.
      My question is can I eliminate 2nd housing barrel n use an external pump n solve this problem. It would go from 4" to 2"
      I also have another pump on the skimmer helix teed going to a bog filter then to a moving bed of bioballs then to a tpr retro.and teed to another pressurized sicce filter finally sharing input to warerfall. Hope that makes sense.

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    2. #2
      TX_Koi is offline Member
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      What size (gallons) is that settlement tank? You’re looking for 10% of total pond volume for that settlement chamber. That may be part of why you’re emptying it so quickly.

    3. #3
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC President
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      It's normally suggested that the SC be 10% of the flow of the pump to settle
      debris properly, not pond volume.

      What size is the pipe between the SC and the pump chamber? If the pump chamber is emptying, the
      pipe size is too small or the SC exit pipe is mounted too high so the draw down is causing it to suck air.
      If it's not the SC exit pipe mounted incorrectly to cause it to pull air prematurely, it sounds like an
      external pump would cure the problem too.
      --Steve



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    4. #4
      CharlieQ is offline Senior Member
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      Name:  20201115_090613.jpg
Views: 356
Size:  324.6 KB
      Sc outlet is 4" knocked down to 3"with a swooping elbow upwards then 2" out of pump chamber.
      Thx for responding.
      I was thinking about going for an external anyway, do u have any suggestions for an external. Should I get variable speed n wat size pump? Didnt realize pending required so much math lol

    5. #5
      icu2's Avatar
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      I want to be sure of how this is plumbed... is how I have it labeled correct? The BD feeds
      to the top of the vortex and the holding tank with the pump is plumbed from the bottom of
      the vortex and comes up near the top of the holding tank?

      Name:  Image1.jpg
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Size:  432.1 KB
      --Steve



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    6. #6
      CharlieQ is offline Senior Member
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      That is correct

    7. #7
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      Okay... Hopefully I can explain this without being too confusing.
      The vortex is actually plumbed backwards from how it's normally done. Here's why;
      when gravity flowing, like going from a BD to a filter, the closer you are to pond level, the less
      you're going to be able to flow. Consequently those vortex filters are usually plumbed so the BD
      goes to the lower port on the vortex filter, and the output is the upper one.
      They're still not my favorite filter design only because they still won't flow a lot because the upper output
      port is so high up that as soon as enough draw down happens when trying to flow more, it will start to draw air
      as opposed to water and consequently the next gravity fed filter (or pump, if the pump is next) will get more
      air than water and the flow is decreased.
      Here's a quick drawing I tried to do to show it too:

      Name:  Image2.jpg
Views: 315
Size:  21.2 KB

      So along with pipe size, the difference in water level between pond and filter or filter to filter will
      determine how much water flow will happen.
      If anyone can explain better than this, please feel free!!

      At this point what I'd try is (if possible) to drop the input level of the holding tank so it's closer to
      the level it comes out of the vortex. This will flow more as the water level drops in the holding tank.
      Hopefully the vortex will be able to keep up because once you drop the holding tank input level, you
      may find the BD to vortex is the limiting flow factor.
      You can try going straight to the pump too but may find the same thing and the BD to vortex is not able
      to keep up with the pump and you get a lot of draw down in the vortex. It's hard to know exactly what
      will happen based on the pictures and how things are plumbed.
      I hope that didn't make things more confusing than they were before!
      --Steve



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    8. #8
      hp is offline Senior Member
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      The red text below indicates you gravity flow from SC to the pump chamber using 2" pipe? That may be too small for gravity flow If the draw down is small. Can you keep the 4" from SC to pump chamber?

      hp.

      Quote Originally Posted by CharlieQ View Post
      Name:  20201115_090613.jpg
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      Sc outlet is 4" knocked down to 3"with a swooping elbow upwards then 2" out of pump chamber.
      Thx for responding.
      I was thinking about going for an external anyway, do u have any suggestions for an external. Should I get variable speed n wat size pump? Didnt realize pending required so much math lol

    9. #9
      CharlieQ is offline Senior Member
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      From vortex 4" to pump chamber is 3"reduced.

    10. #10
      CharlieQ is offline Senior Member
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      Not at all. I understood all of it. Thx

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    11. #11
      CharlieQ is offline Senior Member
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      I think I'm going to give the external a shot it pays in the long run anyway on electricity

    12. #12
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      If you still have trouble with it going directly to the pump, here's how the vortex is normally plumbed:



      There might be more helpful info in the thread too:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...ettlement-tank
      --Steve



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    13. #13
      CharlieQ is offline Senior Member
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      Wow. I screwed that up.
      I always wanted a vortex system.when bob from suburban gardens passed I finally bought one at a substantial discount but I didn't get any of bobs install advise.
      Back to the drawing board.
      I will reverse the input and eliminate pump chamber n let u know. I think l ll lower vortex 2 more inches to assure a steady output flow

    14. #14
      CharlieQ is offline Senior Member
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      Jack
      Thx for all ur expert advice.i switched the feeds n eliminated the pump chamber and installed an external advantage pump with great success.
      Thx again for ur expert knowledge. I also had to add a rubber sealed extension pipe that slopes down on the output of the vortex. Helps for No air suction

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