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    Thread: Dedicated Koi Pond DIY Build by Novice

    1. #1
      dwmilligan is offline Junior Member
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      Dedicated Koi Pond DIY Build by Novice

      Hello All!
      After many years of keeping fish in the house, I am finally planning to take my hobby outdoors with a dedicated koi pond. I’ve spent the past 4-5 months researching but have only came across this forum until about a month ago. I plan on beginning construction in Spring 2021 so still have some time to finish planning.
      First a couple specs.
      • We live in Northern Illinois and have clay soils.
      • Pond will be approx. 5000-6000 gallons.
      • Rough dimensions are 18’x9’ and 5.5-6’ deep. First ledge for rockwork will be 12-18” deep, second ledge will be roughly 4’ deep, floor sloped down to BD over 6-12”.
      • Rockwork only around the top ledge, liner for the bottom and sides.
      • There are several large trees in the area, but most are about 50’ away, however I am expecting a lot of leaves in the fall. I plan on having an oversized filter and netting in place during the fall for this.
      • Waterfall will be set back about 6 feet from the pond.
      • All work is DIY, I am very mechanically inclined and cheap...
      • Regarding budget, while money is a limitation, I do want what’s best (but not necessarily THE best) for the fish.

      I have sketched up the pond as I see it in my head but there are still a few questions.
      • Where do I need check valves?
      • Do I need knife valve at the settlement tank or anywhere else?
      • Is one 4” BD enough?
      • How much pitch do I need between the floor and the BD?
      • Do I need a concrete ledge for the rockwork, or can I forgo it since I have heavy clay soils?
      • How important is a bead filter? Can the waterfall adequately house the mech/bio filtration for this size pond?
      • If I have a bead filter, do I need to inject air into the waterfall or the bead filter?
      • Last question, are there some resources somewhere regarding comparisons of the various companies that offer pond kits? It’s a little overwhelming from my point of view.


      Name:  pond laypout 1.png
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      Thank you for any advice!

      Doug

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    2. #2
      Fishmover is offline Supporting Member
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      Welcome to the forum.

      At 18 feet wide, you will want at least 2 bottom drains. Just having one will allow more gunk to settle on the bottom towards the sides.
      For the TPRs, I prefer to run individual lines for each TPR, this makes it easy to adjust the flow. Running them from a single like could make it harder even out the flow across all of them

      You will want a knife valve from BD line to settlement. Although you may be better served with a Sieve or Drum filter instead of settlment tank, if budget permits
      Check valves are needed where ever you do not want water to flow backwards.
      For the pond edges, I would not trust dirt to stand on or retain shape over time. Clay is hard when it is dry, but once it gets wet it moves. A concrete collar would be my recommendation


      Been ponding for a while, with lots of successes, and lots of failures.

    3. #3
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      I would move the 1 pond return to the start of the big diameter to shift the water round the big diameter to get the circular momentum going.

      Fit one bottom drain in the middle of the big diameter end and a second one at the other end.

      Which direction is your prevailing wind from?

      Position the skimmer on the opposite end to allow the surface dirt to be driven down the length of the pond into the mouth of the skimmer.

      Possible on the outer edge of the big diameter.

      The surface dirt will be inclined to hug the outer edge of the circle.

      Position the second airline with the bottom drain.

      What purpose do valves serve on bottom drain piping?

      Garfield
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    4. #4
      dwmilligan is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Fishmover View Post
      Welcome to the forum.

      At 18 feet wide, you will want at least 2 bottom drains. Just having one will allow more gunk to settle on the bottom towards the sides.
      For the TPRs, I prefer to run individual lines for each TPR, this makes it easy to adjust the flow. Running them from a single like could make it harder even out the flow across all of them

      You will want a knife valve from BD line to settlement. Although you may be better served with a Sieve or Drum filter instead of settlment tank, if budget permits
      Check valves are needed where ever you do not want water to flow backwards.
      For the pond edges, I would not trust dirt to stand on or retain shape over time. Clay is hard when it is dry, but once it gets wet it moves. A concrete collar would be my recommendation
      Thanks for those tips. I was hoping to skip the concrete ledge, I'll need about 60 bags of Quikrete...

    5. #5
      danzcool is offline Senior Member
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      I reality, you should run this as 2 separate circuits with 2 separate pumps. so that WHEN 1 of the pumps fail you still have circulation, you can do some cross connect with valves and plumbing to be able to redirect the flow from 1 to the other circuits. shouldn't be any need to run air to the waterfall unless it has a matala filter in it. If you do a bead filter you will want a spa blower to help with the cleaning cycle. If you are DIY, don't worry about finding pond kits, as they will contain some worthless items and likely other substandard items. I would aim for 2" per foot slope toward the bottoms drainS (2 for that size). At least do a concrete collar around the rim and again for the rock shelf.
      Koiphen member since 05-13-2004

    6. #6
      dwmilligan is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      I would move the 1 pond return to the start of the big diameter to shift the water round the big diameter to get the circular momentum going.

      Fit one bottom drain in the middle of the big diameter end and a second one at the other end.

      Which direction is your prevailing wind from?

      Position the skimmer on the opposite end to allow the surface dirt to be driven down the length of the pond into the mouth of the skimmer.

      Possible on the outer edge of the big diameter.

      The surface dirt will be inclined to hug the outer edge of the circle.

      Position the second airline with the bottom drain.

      What purpose do valves serve on bottom drain piping?

      Garfield
      OK, definitely adding a second bottom drain and moving that first jet. Prevailing winds for the majority of the summer and fall is from the south/southwest. That switches to northwest in the winter but that probably doesn't apply here since it will be iced over (except a hole from the aerator of course). So if winds are from the south, the skimmer is currently in the right spot, small radius in the north end. Regarding the valve on the bottom drain, I saw this somewhere and assumed it was for servicing or something. I really don't know.

      thanks for the help!

      Doug

    7. #7
      dwmilligan is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by danzcool View Post
      I reality, you should run this as 2 separate circuits with 2 separate pumps. so that WHEN 1 of the pumps fail you still have circulation, you can do some cross connect with valves and plumbing to be able to redirect the flow from 1 to the other circuits. shouldn't be any need to run air to the waterfall unless it has a matala filter in it. If you do a bead filter you will want a spa blower to help with the cleaning cycle. If you are DIY, don't worry about finding pond kits, as they will contain some worthless items and likely other substandard items. I would aim for 2" per foot slope toward the bottoms drainS (2 for that size). At least do a concrete collar around the rim and again for the rock shelf.
      So if I ran 2 pumps, would they both be plumbed to run the bead filter and the waterfall, or 1 for each? Regarding the DIY, while I am building the pond myself, I wasn't planning on building the filters, etc. I was hoping a kit from Helix or Savio would supply at least the liner, waterfall box, and skimmer box. Are you suggesting I purchase everything separate then? Can you suggest any websites?

      Thanks,

    8. #8
      icu2's Avatar
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      Welcome and thanks for joining Koiphen!

      I'd second most that has been suggested already. And as was said, if you can afford a sieve as opposed
      to the settling chamber (SC) you will save yourself a LOT of work during maintenance. The AquaForte Ultra III
      will handle 2 - 4" BD's:

      http://www.cascade-pond-supply.com/A...III-p-511.html

      What is the lower pond shelf for? 12"-18" sounds way too deep for the upper shelf.

      I wouldn't worry about things like check valves and the like... you've got plenty of time to collect
      small pieces. Get the plan complete so everything (in theory) works together well first.

      I look forward to watching the build progress!
      --Steve



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    9. #9
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Have you familiarized yourself with the rotating drum filters?

      Worth a look, new or second hand.

      Garfield
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    10. #10
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by dwmilligan View Post
      OK, definitely adding a second bottom drain and moving that first jet. Prevailing winds for the majority of the summer and fall is from the south/southwest. That switches to northwest in the winter but that probably doesn't apply here since it will be iced over (except a hole from the aerator of course). So if winds are from the south, the skimmer is currently in the right spot, small radius in the north end. Regarding the valve on the bottom drain, I saw this somewhere and assumed it was for servicing or something. I really don't know.
      thanks for the help!

      Doug
      No venturi type jets. I know Sacramento Koi used to use these types of returns and they take
      a high head pump (i.e. a lot of electricity) to make them work. An open 2" return with a ball valve
      will take a lot less pump head to work. And like Fishmover said, each return needs to be plumbed
      individually as opposed to in a series like you have drawn.
      --Steve



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    11. #11
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      What purpose do valves serve on bottom drain piping?

      Garfield
      They're to isolate the SC from the pond when cleaning so you can empty the SC.
      --Steve



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    12. #12
      dwmilligan is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Welcome and thanks for joining Koiphen!

      I'd second most that has been suggested already. And as was said, if you can afford a sieve as opposed
      to the settling chamber (SC) you will save yourself a LOT of work during maintenance. The AquaForte Ultra III
      will handle 2 - 4" BD's:

      http://www.cascade-pond-supply.com/A...III-p-511.html

      What is the lower pond shelf for? 12"-18" sounds way too deep for the upper shelf.

      I wouldn't worry about things like check valves and the like... you've got plenty of time to collect
      small pieces. Get the plan complete so everything (in theory) works together well first.

      I look forward to watching the build progress!
      I am not familiar with sieves or drums as someone else suggested. I did look into the UltraSieve III you mentioned, if I understand the mechanics right, this is not a gravity fed system, it would sit along side the bead filter at grade and draw water through the pump. Is that correct? I think one of the appeals to the settlement tank was that it was below grade and therefore hidden from view. I haven't yet figured out how I want to hide the equipment but i know I don't want it out in the open.

      Regarding the shelf, here is a cross section sketch to better explain what my thought was. let me know what you think. Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it.

      Name:  pond cross section.png
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Size:  12.5 KB

    13. #13
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      The bigger the settlement volume, the better.

      Slower the water velocity the quicker the dirt settles out.

      Draw through, rather than push broken up mush through.

      Garfield.
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by dwmilligan View Post
      I am not familiar with sieves or drums as someone else suggested. I did look into the UltraSieve III you mentioned, if I understand the mechanics right, this is not a gravity fed system, it would sit along side the bead filter at grade and draw water through the pump. Is that correct? I think one of the appeals to the settlement tank was that it was below grade and therefore hidden from view. I haven't yet figured out how I want to hide the equipment but i know I don't want it out in the open.

      Regarding the shelf, here is a cross section sketch to better explain what my thought was. let me know what you think. Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it.

      Name:  pond cross section.png
Views: 384
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      RDFs or drum filters can be either Gravity or pump fed, with Gravity being easier from a maintenance perspective.
      Sieves are traditionally gravity fed, with the exception of a few pump fed models.

      Your edging is similar to how I have done mine. Wend down about 6 to 8 inches to place my concrete collar, the placed rocks on top and dirt behind. This keeps the water level above the liner so that it does not show as easily.

      Just noticed you are in Barrington, you should check Midwest Pond and Koi Society MPKS.org. Good group of folks

      A filter pit is a good way to hide the equipment. All piping runs under ground and can be placed at a remote location away from the pond. My current pond has a filter pit 40 feet from the pond.

      Not sure what you are planning to place on top of the concrete, but 12 to 18 inches seems pretty big. Will it be concrete blocks on top?
      Last edited by Fishmover; 10-20-2020 at 02:10 PM.


      Been ponding for a while, with lots of successes, and lots of failures.

    15. #15
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by dwmilligan View Post
      I am not familiar with sieves or drums as someone else suggested. I did look into the UltraSieve III you mentioned, if I understand the mechanics right, this is not a gravity fed system, it would sit along side the bead filter at grade and draw water through the pump. Is that correct? I think one of the appeals to the settlement tank was that it was below grade and therefore hidden from view. I haven't yet figured out how I want to hide the equipment but i know I don't want it out in the open.

      Regarding the shelf, here is a cross section sketch to better explain what my thought was. let me know what you think. Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it.
      Yes, gravity fed so the top of the sieve is an inch or two above max pond level. Example of mine in a filter pit and feeds a
      pressure filter and out to 5 underwater returns (tpr's):

      Name:  upper pond filter pit 3.2019.jpg
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      --Steve



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    16. #16
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      They're to isolate the SC from the pond when cleaning so you can empty the SC.
      The two bottom drain pipes would finish very low in the bottom of the settlement on a side of the chamber pointing up.

      Each pipe end would have an open socket finish.

      Water would be drawn into the chamber via the bottom drain pipes, dragging an amount of dirt depending on the velocity of the the water

      traveling along the pipe work into the settlement chamber.

      The velocity cannot be too fast or the settlment chamber will be by-passed.

      The chamber should be a suitable size to hold a fair amount of water which will allow the heavy stuff to drop to the bottom of the chamber and make its way to the drain pipe oulet

      To give the bottom drain pipes a really good flush out from time to time ,drop cut to length pipes into each bottom drain socket and pump the water out of the settleme chamber.

      Switch off the pump and lift one stand pipe out to allow the most water for the longest time for each pipe to rush in and clean the bottom drain lines.

      Allow to settle and drain away through the bottom drain ball valve.

      Garfield
      Last edited by coolwon; 10-21-2020 at 12:27 PM.
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    17. #17
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      The two bottom drain pipes would finish very low in the bottom of the settlement on a side of the chamber pointing up.

      Each pipe end would have an open socket finish.

      Water would be drawn into the chamber via the bottom drain pipes, dragging an amount of dirt depending on the velocity of the the water

      traveling along the pipe work into the settlement chamber.

      The velocity cannot be too fast or the settlment chamber will be by-passed.

      The chamber should be a suitable size to hold a fair amount of water which will allow the heavy stuff to drop to the bottom of the chamber and make its way to the drain pipe oulet

      To give the bottom drain pipes a really good flush out from time to time ,drop cut to length pipes into each bottom drain socket and pump the water out of the settleme chamber.

      Switch off the pump and lift one stand pipe out to allow the most water for the longest time for each pipe to rush in and clean the bottom drain lines.

      Allow to settle and drain away through the bottom drain ball valve.

      Garfield
      ... or close 2 valves (red handles, lower left pic) and open 3" BD in SC (small silver handle valve, middle right in pic) to
      waste barrel. Drain SC, flush, and open valves to refill. Easy peezy.

      Name:  uv.jpg
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      --Steve



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    18. #18
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Valves are waste of a certain amount settlement volume,the socket end is always a bottom entry, the bigger the better settlement chamber.

      Water passes through slow and lazily.

      Sockets are for free with every length of pipe purchased and they never have to be replaced in awkward positions at great cost after grit has has got into the slider groove.

      Garfield
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      dwmilligan is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      ... or close 2 valves (red handles, lower left pic) and open 3" BD in SC (small silver handle valve, middle right in pic) to
      waste barrel. Drain SC, flush, and open valves to refill. Easy peezy.
      OK, Well I've taken some time and rethought the layout, adding a second pump. I'm hoping I have this close, please give me some feedback.

      Pond Layout 2.pdf

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      Last edited by dwmilligan; 10-23-2020 at 10:31 AM.

    20. #20
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      The direction of you pond returns?

      Garfield.
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