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  • Results 1 to 12 of 12

    Thread: I thought my pond was better, itís not

    1. #1
      Ktnjde is offline Supporting Member
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      Unhappy I thought my pond was better, itís not

      Ph 6.5
      Ammonia .5
      Nitrite 0
      Phosphate .25
      Kh 107.25
      Temp 66 degrees F
      ~1200 gallons

      Itís an Aquascape pond (I know, I know) that is about 8 weeks old. Weíre going to get the rocks out in spring. We just canít do it this year.

      I thought things had calmed down after my uproarious experience with my pond and fish. It appears that the fish originally affected by the multiple diseases in the pond are seemingly on the mend. The fish I asked for help with last week still has the wound but I imagine it will take awhile to heal. The koi are VERY quiet. My largest koi has been very quiet and at the bottom for about two week. I just now noticed that it has a fin that has red streaks in it. Some are also not eating any food. Iíve even given them
      Manda Fu and they arenít interested. Iíve skipped a day or two to get them hungry but there is little excitement over food.

      The goldfish are seemingly fine. They eat, cautiously- weíve had a heron spotting. I have two large caves for them to hide. We also have fish line across the pond. The goldfish go berserk at night when the lights come on. They are exhibiting spawning behavior for about 2 weeks. Only at night. (Mood lighting &#128521.

      Does anyone have any thoughts.? During the acute health crisis a four weeks ago I did 3 days/doses of Microbe-lift BSDT and one of PraziPro.

    2. #2
      montwila's Avatar
      montwila is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ktnjde View Post

      Wow! where to begin.................

      I am unfamiliar with your Acute crisis of the past and will not speculate. But just this one post has so much going on and you have much to learn that I cannot cover everything but will touch on the highlights to me.


      Ph 6.5 This is dangerously close to the level at which the nitrifying bacteria stop converting and performing the nitrogen cycle. STOP Feeding Anything!

      Ammonia .5 If I were a koi I would not eat with this level of ammonia!!!!! My koi begin going off food as soon as I have a color change from 0 ppm and by .25 the just look at it but do not eat.

      Nitrite 0 With an 8 week old pond; Has your pond even cycled? You did not provide a reading for NitrAtes so I do not know if it has cycled. With that ammonia I would expect some NitrIte.

      Phosphate .25 It is probably in the test kit that you bought but really who cares. Aquarium people worry about it but it is not too important in a koi pond. Maybe next year when the algae blooms.

      Kh 107.25 This is okay but with a pH of only 6.5 I would add at least 1/2 cup of Baking Soda and keep the KH well above 120. Probably 140 and if you have a bead filter over 180.

      Temp 66 degrees F I find it hard to believe your pond is still above 66*F The weather TODAY in Wilmington is in the 70's but the rest of the week it is only in the 60's. The night time temperatures are in the low to mid 50's and into the forties coming up. I can believe you have a thermometer that says it is 66*F on the surface but Dinurally I would doubt the entire pond could be that high without additional heat. Maybe you are heating. I can only go on what is in this post. Where this is going:

      It is very hard to treat koi below 70*f and for them to heal. They may appear better but I doubt they are truly healing.
      Ponds generally do not cycle below 70*F or they take an extremely long time. Beyond "the 28 day" time frame that is excepted and maybe even into next Summer before it can handle the bio load. Have you have figured out how much of a bio load you have in your pond? This is important to make sure you are not over feeding especially in such a young pond.


      ~1200 gallons Smaller ponds are less stable and thus a smaller margin for error. Chemically and Temperature. If your thermometer is reading 66*F, I would compare it to another thermometer to see if they agree with each other. I have several thermometers in various systems and they all give me different readings when I compare them in the same water. So I know which ones are high and low and mentally adjust for their reading. I would also check the temperature of the pond multiple times during the day to see what the dinural average is. The surface temperature of the pond (floating thermometer) is probably not the same as the temperature at the bottom where your large koi is laying. If it touches the 50's at all - the koi will not heal. Being pikothermic, koi have different levels of metabolism at different temperature ranges.

      Itís an Aquascape pond (I know, I know) that is about 8 weeks old. Weíre going to get the rocks out in spring. We just canít do it this year.

      Many koi live in Aquascapes ponds. It is still up to you the pond owner to know how to take care of them in that Aquascape envirioment.

      I thought things had calmed down after my uproarious experience with my pond and fish. It can take fish months to heal not weeks. It appears that the fish originally affected by the multiple diseases in the pond are seemingly on the mend. As mentioned above they may be but with .5 ammonia I doubt it. The temperature drop has probably made the ammonia less toxic coupled with such a low pH reading. However they are probably still very ill. The fish I asked for help with last week still has the wound but I imagine it will take awhile to heal. Yes, months and not until next year in cool water if it lives that long. The koi are VERY quiet. Not surprising with such a high ammonia reading and the ponds water cooling down. My largest koi has been very quiet and at the bottom for about two week. Most likely the amount of ammonia in the pond and probably ill from the long term effects. I just now noticed that it has a fin that has red streaks in it. Yes, high stress from being sick so long and horrible water quality. Some are also not eating any food. Ammonia (toxic or less toxic) can cause the fish to go off feed. STP FEEDING! Iíve even given them Manda Fu and they arenít interested. STOP FEEDING ANYTHING. Iíve skipped a day or two Stop for a week and watch you water parameters and then seeif they show any interest in "just a few kernels" of food to get them hungry but there is little excitement over food. Koi can go a long time without food. Your water quality is much more important right now.

      The goldfish are seemingly fine. They eat, cautiously- weíve had a heron spotting. I have two large caves for them to hide. We also have fish line across the pond. The goldfish go berserk at night when the lights come on. They are exhibiting spawning behavior for about 2 weeks. Only at night. (Mood lighting &#128521.

      Goldfish are funny creatures and I do not do Goldfish. But I doubt they are spawning with the Fall days shortening and most likely are just freaking out.

      Does anyone have any thoughts.? During the acute health crisis a four weeks ago I did 3 days/doses of Microbe-lift BSDT and one of PraziPro.

      There is a lot more to this orpossibilities but I think I may have hit some of the highlights.


      P.S. get the rocks out.
      I am sorry I did not use another color in my responses. I am not good with computers and type very slowly

      Good luck with your pond.
      Last edited by icu2; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:44 PM. Reason: Help with colors... :-)

    3. #3
      Ktnjde is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by montwila View Post
      I am sorry I did not use another color in my responses. I am not good with computers and type very slowly

      Good luck with your pond.
      Thank you. I used some ammonia lock by API. I ordered an in pond thermometer, Iíve instructed the entire house to not feed the fish and I added 1/2 cup baking soda. I will continue to test and work on the water. Thank you.

    4. #4
      Ktnjde is offline Supporting Member
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      Iím amazed that 15 minutes after using the Ammolock all of the fish are more active, especially the big one.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    5. #5
      Fishmover is offline Supporting Member
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      Keep a close eye on the nitrites also. When one climbs, often the other will later.

      Also, Take a look at Safe by Seachem in powder form. A little goes a long way and binds ammonia.

    6. #6
      montwila's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ktnjde View Post
      Iím amazed that 15 minutes after using the Ammolock all of the fish are more active, especially the big one.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      It is always good when such a dynamic change can happen so quickly. It really emphasizes to the pond owner how important that item is and it is usually remembered. We can read threads all day long but to actually see the fish come off the bottom in such a short time is really where we learn.

      Thank you icu2 for breaking out and coloring my comments!

    7. #7
      montwila's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Fishmover View Post
      Keep a close eye on the nitrites also. When one climbs, often the other will later.

      Also, Take a look at Safe by Seachem in powder form. A little goes a long way and binds ammonia.
      Yes, Seachem is a very good product and I am going to investigate using it at koi shows due to the cost of AmQuel and Chloramax.

      Without a NitrAte reading: We do not know if the pond is cycling in the cooler temps. IF NitrItes begin to show up you will need to use salt. But there are plenty of threads on NitrIte and salt.

      I started a pond here in the Pacific Northwest in August one time. It was two years (due to our temperate maritime climate) before it cycled and the filters would handle the bio load that I had. Filter cycling is a very touchy thing in cooler water. Since your pond is only 8 weeks old: You will really need to monitor water quality until probably mid summer next year. When you take the rocks out, you will probably be starting all over again. So keep that in the back of your mind and all the lessons your pond and fish teach you along the way.

      Good luck and I can always be PM'd.

    8. #8
      Ktnjde is offline Supporting Member
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      Thank you. Iím learning so much. Iím waiting for the nitrAte test to come. I had a pond in NJ and our local fish ďexpertĒ told me not worry about testing the water frequently. I really had no idea what a delicate balance it is.
      I appreciate your help.


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    9. #9
      Fishmover is offline Supporting Member
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      Yes, removing the rocks will be removing beneficial bacteria that inhabit the rocks also.
      Be ready for Ammonia and nitrites once the rocks are removed. All surface of a pond our home to beneficial bacteria that support the nitrification process. Our filters are not the only source of nitrifying bacteria

    10. #10
      Ktnjde is offline Supporting Member
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      Iím not going to remove the rocks until next spring. Thank you


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    11. #11
      mer is offline Supporting Member
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      Along with removing the rocks remove the gravel as well!

    12. #12
      Rich8888ri is offline Senior Member
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      Another thing you should buy is aqa meds medzyme. It gets rid of the aremonus bacteria which is the bad bacteria that starts alot of ulsers. Use it in fall before winter and again in spring. It helps at the time when koi immune system is low. Here is a link for you.
      https://playitkoi.com/products/aquameds-aqua-medzyme

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