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  • Results 1 to 14 of 14

    Thread: What Are These Spots ?

    1. #1
      Sandy159 is offline Junior Member
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      What Are These Spots ?

      July 26, I added three newly purchased 1” koi to a 75 gallon tank that has four larger 4” koi (3 black Karasugoi & a Doitsu Taisho(mostly scaleless)). Yes, in hindsight I should have used a quarantine tank.

      30% water change was done on the 27th using API Stresscoat and morning of the 28th two of the small koi had a handful of tiny white spots on their fins. I dosed the tank with non-iodized salt (tablespoon per 5 gal as a start)

      Water temperature was about 78°F

      Spots were all gone the next morning July 29 (seems too fast for ich to disappear). Then July 31 the Doitsu Taisho was covered with dozens of tiny white spots. None of the others had any spots although the Karasugoi appeared to have a thicker than usual slime coat.

      They all had voracious appetites, no clamped fins, no flashing, no lethargy.

      Gradually increased the salinity to 0.30% and the spots dissappeared for the most part, except for a very few on the tail of the Doitsu Taisho. It has been moved to a 20 gallon quarantine tank for more than a month now with salt increased to 0.50%.

      Spots only seem to be on the tail, and seem to be located in only 2 areas – near the top and near the bottom, both about half way along the tail. Spots grow over a few days then disappear, but there always seem to be a few in one area or the other or both.

      Water temperature now, (September 23) is down around 64°F and the individual spots seem to grow slower and last longer (about a week) before fading

      Other than these spots the fish seems fine. No signs of stress, active, eating well.

      This is the first koi problem I have had in over 20 years - I'd really appreciate any comments, suggestions, or a diagnosis if possible
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    2. #2
      Sandy159 is offline Junior Member
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      I’m hoping this closer image may help – I went back to the original high resolution photo and cropped a lot tighter on the six spots near the top edge of the tail.

      The 4 blue arrows point to older spots that are starting to fade and will probably be gone tomorrow. The 2 red arrows are pointing to newer smaller spots just starting to grow.
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    3. #3
      Rob Forbis is offline Senior Member
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      koi pox?

    4. #4
      Sandy159 is offline Junior Member
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      Rob
      Thanks so much for your reply. I had considered Koi Pox/Carp Pox, and I note your question mark. How much variance is there in the size of Koi Pox ? I had understood they are typically the size of a pencil eraser. These are tiny in comparison - typically less than a mm

    5. #5
      Russell Peters's Avatar
      Russell Peters is offline Supporting Member
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      IMO, this is not Koi pox. More than likely an encysted parasite like Ich. I usually open these spots and treat them with salt topically. I have not seen this on my Koi, for years, since I moved my facility indoors.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    6. #6
      Sandy159 is offline Junior Member
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      Thank you Russell
      i haven't been able to keep fish outdoors in 25 years because of Racoons. I'm convinced this problem was introduced the end of July with 3 babies that may have (probably) originated outdoors.

    7. #7
      Rob Forbis is offline Senior Member
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      Listen to Russ.

    8. #8
      MikeM is offline Super Member
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      Looks like Ich to me. Lots of different treatments, but can be challenging since it takes a long time to go through life cycle if not able to raise water temp to 80 or so. Cannot kill it when encysted.... unless going to the lengths Russ described.

    9. #9
      Sandy159 is offline Junior Member
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      Thank you MikeM - I'm pretty convinced it is a stubborn case of Ich. I had been told that Malachite Green/Formalin were no longer available in Canada, but I managed to get some, and I think things are under control. No new cysts, and a couple more days, the old ones should be gone

      Thank you for the input !

    10. #10
      No Buddy is offline Senior Member
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      While encysted parasites like Ich can appear this way I doubt that is the case here. They are calcium buildup where the delicate rays break and repair. This is especially common in longfins

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    11. #11
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      scoping a spot would tell you if you have ich.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbDprIjoDdY

    12. #12
      No Buddy is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      scoping a spot would tell you if you have ich.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbDprIjoDdY
      Couln't have said it better myself LOL. I have never seen that particular video but I do like that guy Dr Loh

    13. #13
      Sandy159 is offline Junior Member
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      Thank you No Buddy & kdh

      Yes, I also am impressed with Dr Richmond Loh. There is another video where he discusses differences between Ich and Lymphocystis.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn2EbgxDiZk

      So I am now second guessing myself and wondering if this never was Ich, or if was, did I clear it up early in August with the 0.30% salt.

      July 31 the Doitsu Taisho was covered with dozens of tiny white spots on body and fins. Since then the spots have been clustered predominantly in 2 areas of the tail

      Lymphocystis – spots clustered predominantly on fins.
      - Doesn’t spread as fast as Ich
      - Does anybody know how long they typically last before fading ?
      - If Lymphocystis is confirmed (no cure) should the fish be disposed of ? what about the others it was in contact with before being quarantined ?

      Fin Ray Fractures – common on long fin goldfish and Koi like my Doitsu Taisho
      - Will heal on their own – but is it reasonable to see these coming and going repeatedly in similar locations?

      I wish I had a microscope and the skill to investigate closer

    14. #14
      No Buddy is offline Senior Member
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      Contrary to popular belief, Koi do not get Lymphocystis

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