• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 18 of 18

    Thread: How are strong cinderblock walls built?

    1. #1
      secuono is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2012
      Location
      Virginia
      Posts
      216

      Question How are strong cinderblock walls built?

      I'm going to be expanding up & out, instead of digging dirt out.

      I need to know how to build a strong wall of cinder/concrete blocks. Want the walls 3ft to 3.5 feet above the ground. I'll be using an epdm liner.

      Do I dig down a certain amount first, to the frost line? I'm in Virginia.
      Use rebar in the ground & through the first one or two layers of blocks?
      Does dirt or concrete fill these blocks? Or can solid concrete blocks be used instead?
      Or does this need to be all poured concrete, then place the above ground block on top?

      After the base layer of blocks, do I need to use solid concrete blocks for the rest of the wall height? Or can I use open blocks & fill with dirt?

    2. #2
      ricshaw is offline Senior Member
      is who misses his Koi.
       
      Feeling:
      Bemused
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2016
      Location
      Southern California
      Posts
      2,143
      You may need professional help or advice.

      You build what is like a concrete block retaining wall.

      Concrete footing with rebar. Concrete block wall with rebar horizontal and vertically.


      member

    3. #3
      pondfishguy is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2018
      Location
      Los Angeles
      Posts
      346
      "Do I need to use solid concrete blocks for the rest of the wall height? Or can I use open blocks & fill with dirt?"
      No and absolutely not. It's the rebar encased in concrete that provides the structural integrity to withstand the water pressure.
      Vertical rebar set into a concrete footing and then build vertically with horizontal rebar at every course, bent around corners and min 12" overlap at joints.

      You can google retaining wall design for general code guidelines.

    4. #4
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is playing on Koiphen
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      31,917
      Never put rebar in the ground. If you build a concrete footing place it in that and extend
      into the wall, but never into the dirt. It'll cause the rebar to rust and spread into the part that
      is concrete encased and erode the whole piece.
      --Steve

    5. #5
      MCAsan's Avatar
      MCAsan is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2015
      Location
      Atlanta
      Posts
      1,484
      There are many videos on Youtube about how to lay block walls.

    6. #6
      secuono is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2012
      Location
      Virginia
      Posts
      216
      Alright, so now I know how to do the walls.

      Can I have the blocks flush with the edge of the pit or do I need to move the wall over a foot or two for cave-in prevention?

      I'm debating wether to build over current pond or move it to a whole new location.
      If I don't move it, I'll need a temporary bin to house the koi while its drained, new liner is added & then refilled. It can't be too small, because I'll let the sun warm the water some before moving fish back in. I won't use the tub again, so it makes more sense to me to just use that money on digging a new hole instead, no?
      Now to convince my husband of this, then I can hire the person that leveled my arena to dig the hole & the fitting trench...

    7. #7
      secuono is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2012
      Location
      Virginia
      Posts
      216
      Husband agreed to new location and hole!
      No response, so I guess I'll do the footing 2ft from the pity's sides.

    8. #8
      pickerel's Avatar
      pickerel is offline Supporting Member
      is enjoying new pond
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      May 2018
      Location
      SC
      Posts
      1,194
      There are a lot of build threads on here where you can see the methods that work.

    9. #9
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is playing on Koiphen
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      31,917
      Quote Originally Posted by secuono View Post
      Husband agreed to new location and hole!
      No response, so I guess I'll do the footing 2ft from the pity's sides.
      It really doesn't matter. Just dig the hole large enough so you can build the walls without
      the dirt being in the way. I hand dug my pond so the walls were very close to the dirt sides.

      --Steve

    10. #10
      secuono is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2012
      Location
      Virginia
      Posts
      216
      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      It really doesn't matter. Just dig the hole large enough so you can build the walls without
      the dirt being in the way. I hand dug my pond so the walls were very close to the dirt sides.

      The above ground walls only need to be 2ft in the ground for the frost line. I don't want them 4ft in the ground, that's a ton more block, concrete and rebar to argue with all by hand & by myself. =(

      I'm going to do 2ft away from the pit, since I don't want the ground to cave as its being dug.

      Here's a picture that might explain it better.
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Last edited by secuono; 08-06-2020 at 08:21 PM.

    11. #11
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is playing on Koiphen
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      31,917
      Should work fine too. Everyone's soil is different so you are your own best engineer.
      --Steve

    12. #12
      secuono is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2012
      Location
      Virginia
      Posts
      216
      Going to do it a little differently, since I've decided to keep it in the same place.
      20ft long, 17ft wide, 5ft in ground & 2ft above ground. 17,800 gallons.

      Filter will be three 100gal troughs. They will be used to house the plants, filter media and small koi. I'll move the new 300g trough the horses got temporarily and house the bigger koi in it. Making the pond a total of 18,100 gallons.

      No bog. It'll be removed to allow about 2-3ft expansion in its location. I'll leave about 2ft of space between fence n pond.

      I'll add concrete pavers all around pond & use concrete to fill gaps. This'll keep the area free of annoying grass!


      There is a propane tank on the right, which means I'll do a slanted wall in that corner to stay away from it. 3x3x4ft triangle, this'll remove about 235 gallons.

      So, a grand total of 17,865 gallons!

      The 3 black ovals are the filter bins. They will be raised. First will be highest and they'll each step down. Last will be several inches above pond wall edge. I haven't decided how to spill water to pond. Either notch short, round end and make a spillway to pond or I'll rotate the last bin & use 4 pipes cut into side to be the spillway.
      Blue shows paths.
      First will have hole at bottom edge to force the water upwards and through coarse layers of sponge.
      It will spill into the 2nd bin by a notch in the side at top. 2nd bin will have layers of medium sponge.
      This will then repeat the spill into the last bin. Last bin will have the fine sponges.
      Sponges will mechanically remove plant debris and poop. They also act as home for beneficial bacteria.

      I will use the constant slow drain and refill of fresh water.
      Going to use a very long, narrow tube with sponges on its intake, to drain out 40ft away.
      A new garden hose will lead into the 3rd bin to add new water.

      Regular cinderblocks or the wider ones?
      Idk yet, everyone is all over the place about that.
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    13. #13
      batman's Avatar
      batman is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2013
      Location
      Gotham
      Posts
      811
      Duplicate
      Last edited by batman; 1 Week Ago at 08:46 AM.
      The real Batman wears polyester! Don't be fooled by the plastic imposter.

    14. #14
      batman's Avatar
      batman is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2013
      Location
      Gotham
      Posts
      811
      For pond building with concrete block there are multiple methods. Mortar joints or dry stack. Typically most DIY are 8 inch wide dry stack block with cells filled with wet concrete mix. Set on a re-bar reinforced footer with vertical re-bar in every other cell and horizontal re-bar every other row. Pin the bottom row to the footer with re-bar. Common to see some variation on amount of re-bar. Sometimes built on reinforced concrete floor. Use larger block if more strength is needed such as if the pond wall is also a retaining wall. Blocks set with mortar should also have vertical and horizontal re-bar in concrete filled cells.

      Look online and you'll find a wide assortment of build structual designs. Listed above are common methods with a reputation for longevity. Your pond walls are 7 feet tall and longest wall is 20 feet. I'd think seriously about the larger 12 inch block or reinforcement of center of long wall.
      Last edited by batman; 1 Week Ago at 08:58 AM.
      The real Batman wears polyester! Don't be fooled by the plastic imposter.

    15. #15
      secuono is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2012
      Location
      Virginia
      Posts
      216

      Question

      Quote Originally Posted by batman View Post
      . Your pond walls are 7 feet tall and longest wall is 20 feet. I'd think seriously about the larger 12 inch block or reinforcement of center of long wall.
      Only 2ft is above the ground. Isn't that different or am I not understanding how the ground will help support the block in ground?

      Can I do a footer 2.5ft under ground. Block the rest of the way up & 2ft above ground. Then center dirt dug out another 3ft down.
      Idk if this makes sense. I'm assuming the ground can hold the weight on an edge, but maybe it can't? Itd save 3ft of block and concrete pour.
      Pic to hopefully better show what I mean. The block & dirt wall will be flush all the way down the 7ft span.

      Or does the footer and block need to start at the same point at the bottom?
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    16. #16
      Nicoslam is online now Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2017
      Location
      TX
      Posts
      8
      Just completed mine. I did 3' down 3' up. Installed a perimeter beam 16" wide by 6" thick using 1/2 rebar. Once done, Drilled and epoxied 1/2 rebard every other slot and doubled up on the corners. Dry stacked the CMU. Easy to do but you must remove flash and any unevenese with a hand stone. Use door shims to help alignment if needed. Run horizontal rebar with 1/2 rebar every three course. on the last course, notch the CMU using a 7" blade which will get you 3-3.5" depth. This is your top bond beam. Then block fill all cavities. If your design is rectangular, do yourself a favor anfd invest in an RPE drop in liner from everything ponName:  1.jpg
Views: 101
Size:  145.0 KBds. Eaasy and worth the extra cash. Once liner is in, you can use your coping to finish the top. I am making mine using countertop edging and concrete with salt rock finish and acid stain. Not there yet but on que. A skimmer from Deep water innovations is specific to CMU builds and leave a clean look.
      Name:  1.jpg
Views: 101
Size:  145.0 KB
      Name:  2.jpg
Views: 101
Size:  148.0 KB
      Name:  3.jpg
Views: 99
Size:  127.3 KB
      Name:  4.jpg
Views: 99
Size:  110.8 KB
      Name:  5.jpg
Views: 97
Size:  49.8 KB

    17. #17
      batman's Avatar
      batman is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2013
      Location
      Gotham
      Posts
      811
      Quote Originally Posted by secuono View Post
      Only 2ft is above the ground. Isn't that different or am I not understanding how the ground will help support the block in ground?

      Can I do a footer 2.5ft under ground. Block the rest of the way up & 2ft above ground. Then center dirt dug out another 3ft down.
      Idk if this makes sense. I'm assuming the ground can hold the weight on an edge, but maybe it can't? Itd save 3ft of block and concrete pour.
      Pic to hopefully better show what I mean. The block & dirt wall will be flush all the way down the 7ft span.

      Or does the footer and block need to start at the same point at the bottom?
      Maybe OK with 8 inch block. Thing that makes me somewhat nervous is your wall height and water depth are a little taller than the typical DIY block build. Once filled with water there will be pressure on both sides of wall. With heavy rains and ground saturation and then drying, shrinking and possible freeze the outside pressure will vary by season. Plus if the pond is ever drained for maintenance would be an extreme condition.

      Concrete block reinforced and cells filled is strong. Being this tall can't remember any other builds to reference. Maybe not an issue. Definitely not an issue with shorter walls and digging center out between footers to get depth.
      Last edited by batman; 1 Week Ago at 07:45 PM.
      The real Batman wears polyester! Don't be fooled by the plastic imposter.

    18. #18
      secuono is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2012
      Location
      Virginia
      Posts
      216
      Quote Originally Posted by batman View Post
      Maybe OK with 8 inch block. Thing that makes me somewhat nervous is your wall height and water depth are a little taller than the typical DIY block build. Once filled with water there will be pressure on both sides of wall. With heavy rains and ground saturation and then drying, shrinking and possible freeze the outside pressure will vary by season. Plus if the pond is ever drained for maintenance would be an extreme condition.

      Concrete block reinforced and cells filled is strong. Being this tall can't remember any other builds to reference. Maybe not an issue. Definitely not an issue with shorter walls and digging center out between footers to get depth.
      Okay, I'll start the footer all the way at the bottom.
      Hopefully, I'll never have to drain the whole thing.
      There's a driveway path next to it, makes water travel past and away, instead of pooling near it. Land on other sides also travel away, so that should help a bit.

      12x8x16 blocks are available at my Lowe's, so I can use those instead of the common 8x8x16. That extra width should make it stronger, at least, that's what my common sense is saying.
      I haven't found anyone going as big, not even on FB. They all share smaller ponds. I've already conceded and dropped it from 3ft to 2ft above ground. I'll probably end up using the larger blocks, it'll give me more peace of mind...

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •