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    Thread: Koi fish skin peeling, can this fish be saved? Emergency

    1. #1
      California is offline Junior Member
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      Koi fish skin peeling, can this fish be saved? Emergency

      Hey, I had posted here about a week ago and got some suggestions in regards to treating a skin infection of a sick looking Koi. User Russell Peters suggested it could be a bacterial infection.

      I treated the fish with a broad spectrum disease treatment but now after a few days he looks much worse, the skin that previously had a white film on it is now peeling off. The fish looks really rough. Anybody know what to do? Is the disease treatment working and the affected skin is coming off? I just got him like a month ago he’s fairly new. Could it be that he has been sick since I bought him, he had a slight white the shade over the red from the beginning which I thought was part of the look. The other fish are all healthy.

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      Last edited by California; 5 Days Ago at 11:00 PM.

    2. #2
      nmtsaki's Avatar
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      Since this is a “new“ issue, please post all of your water parameters. Actual numbers, for ammonia, nitrIte, PH, KH; temperature would also be a good idea. I am really interested in your PH/KH, I feel this is one of the more important parameters,Especially with a fish that is peeling. And you should also be using proper test kits, not strips.

      How big is your pond? (Gallons). How many fish do you have in there? Is this fish in quarantine by itself, or is it with other fish? If you have other fish, are any of them having issues?

      I’m sure Russell will probably be on to help you again and those parameters will help him help your fish.

      In the meantime, make sure it’s water is super clean as it pertains to the water quality parameters above.

      Nancy


      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."






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    3. #3
      California is offline Junior Member
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      I did a partial water change yesterday. My pond has about 4500 gallon. I have 4 other small Koi which are all healthy and active, this one is the only one affected. Yes he is in quarantine now by himself. This looks so bad, can a Koi like this even be saved?

      Just now tested:

      PH 8
      Nitrite (after water change) 0.50 ppm
      Ammonia 0.25 ppm
      Phosphate 0 ppm

    4. #4
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      If it is worsening under treatment and currently it has deteriorated down the muscle with ribs visibly showing, I would personally put it down. Others may have suggestions but I would not push it through trial and error at this point trying to determine the cause and correct treatment.



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      Just because its not a Great Koi doesn't mean its not a Great Koi...Me circa 2013

    5. #5
      webted is offline Senior Member
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      Hi California:

      You've still barely addressed the questions you were asked in the thread you started the other day:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...OTOS-Need-help

      Starting multiple threads on the same fish, same problem is poor bulletin board etiquette. It looks like you're trying to avoid the people that already responded to you.

      Microbe lift is basically useless, in my opinion. There are real bacterial treatments out there - Russell already gave you worthwhile info on that account.

      Your filtration is inadequate, your ammonia and nitrite levels are far too high (both should basically be at zero) and you never posted what your actual nitrates level is. That one is important because it gives clues as to how frequently you're making water changes.

      This fish won't make it. You should get some MS-222 and euthanize it. Plenty of people use it, but clove oil is cruel.

      You think your other fish are healthy, but I seriously doubt it. You should be doing water changes there until you have your parameters under control.

      Sorry about the fish, this part of the hobby is not fun at all.

      -t

    6. #6
      California is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by webted View Post
      Hi California:

      You've still barely addressed the questions you were asked in the thread you started the other day:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...OTOS-Need-help

      Starting multiple threads on the same fish, same problem is poor bulletin board etiquette. It looks like you're trying to avoid the people that already responded to you.

      Microbe lift is basically useless, in my opinion. There are real bacterial treatments out there - Russell already gave you worthwhile info on that account.

      Your filtration is inadequate, your ammonia and nitrite levels are far too high (both should basically be at zero) and you never posted what your actual nitrates level is. That one is important because it gives clues as to how frequently you're making water changes.

      This fish won't make it. You should get some MS-222 and euthanize it. Plenty of people use it, but clove oil is cruel.

      You think your other fish are healthy, but I seriously doubt it. You should be doing water changes there until you have your parameters under control.

      Sorry about the fish, this part of the hobby is not fun at all.

      -t
      It’s funny how this whole forum thing is on such a personal level, honestly I really don’t try to avoid anybody, I’m not here to argue or make best friends, so please my posts are on a straight up level not on a personal level.

      I just want advice what to do, and the above post is basically a follow up after a treatment for bacteria that I did. I just tested the water and got the results stated above, what would actual nitrite levels look like vs. what I posted? That’s what came out of the test I did. I’m going to order some of that MS-222 and put the fish down.
      Last edited by California; 4 Days Ago at 11:46 AM.

    7. #7
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Yes, it can be saved, or could have been with the advise I gave before. Salt to 0.6% and Oxolinic acid at a dose rate of 100mg per 250 gallons of water. This looks like Flexibacter Columnar.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    8. #8
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      We discussed this when you thought it was 'sunburn'. Here is the Koi and my recommendation from before.
      Attached Images Attached Images   
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    9. #9
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by California View Post
      Hey, I had posted here about a week ago and got some suggestions in regards to treating a skin infection of a sick looking Koi. User Russell Peters suggested it could be a bacterial infection.

      I treated the fish with a broad spectrum disease treatment but now after a few days he looks much worse, the skin that previously had a white film on it is now peeling off. The fish looks really rough. Anybody know what to do? Is the disease treatment working and the affected skin is coming off? I just got him like a month ago he’s fairly new. Could it be that he has been sick since I bought him, he had a slight white the shade over the red from the beginning which I thought was part of the look. The other fish are all healthy.

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      BTW, broad spectrum does NOTHING for bacaterial issues.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    10. #10
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    11. #11
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      The problem I have with this, if it is Oxolinic Acid and not Oxolium, is the dose rate is incorrect. The dose rate I posted works for pure Oxolinic acid.
      Maybe that dose rate works as a dip?
      Last edited by Russell Peters; 4 Days Ago at 01:00 PM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    12. #12
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      Thank you Russell, I just ordered the Oxolinic Acid (Oxolium® Oxolinic Acid 100G ) with express shipping I should have it by Friday and I’m going to treat the fish with it.

      Please understand I’m completely new to this, what do you mean by salt what kind of salt? I have the fish in a quarantine tub so I calculate the water gallon In my tank at 100 mg ratio/equivalent and mix the Oxolinic Acid powder into the water?
      Last edited by California; 4 Days Ago at 12:58 PM.

    13. #13
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      So, for every one reading this, this is really important to understand. Oxolium, and Oxolinic Acid are NOT the same and for some reasons stores that are selling OA have adopted the dose rate from Oxolium. Argent put out Oxolium and the diluted the OA content to 4% OA so it would make it easier to measure out and dispense. I also think it is a way to charge more as well but I digress. 100mg for 250 gallons is much more difficult for people than a 1/4 teaspoon per 30 gallons. I am not sure why people aren’t aware of what they are selling. Argent went out of business but yet the dose rate they came up with seems to be what everyone one selling 100% pure OA is using. That dose rate is wasteful and could be dangerous. I am attaching labels from Argent Oxolium and an explanation of the difference.
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      Last edited by Russell Peters; 4 Days Ago at 01:55 PM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    14. #14
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by California View Post
      Thank you Russell, I just ordered the Oxolinic Acid (Oxolium® Oxolinic Acid 100G ) with express shipping I should have it by Friday and I’m going to treat the fish with it.

      Please understand I’m completely new to this, what do you mean by salt what kind of salt? I have the fish in a quarantine tub so I calculate the water gallon In my tank at 100 mg ratio/equivalent and mix the Oxolinic Acid powder into the water?
      Salt is available at Home Depot, Lowe’s etc. in 40 or 50lb. bags. The salt is usually in blue/white bags and has to be 100% pure salt with no additives. That fish was in your pond and so is the bacteria. You need to treat your whole pond.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      So, for every one reading this, this is really important to understand. Oxolium, and Oxolinic Acid are NOT the same and for some reasons stores that are selling OA have adopted the dose rate from Oxolium. Argent put out Oxolium and the diluted the OA content to 4% OA so it would make it easier to measure out and dispense. I also think it is a way to charge more as well but I digress. 100mg for 250 gallons is much more difficult for people than a 1/4 teaspoon per 30 gallons. I am not sure why people aren’t aware of what they are selling. Argent went out of business but yet the dose rate they came up with seems to be what everyone one selling 100% pure OA is using. That dose rate is wasteful and could be dangerous. I am attaching labels from Argent Oxolium and an explanation of the difference.
      That's interesting. So I wonder what is it that I received from Cascade Pond Supply? Last year I bought the 100 gram and it came in a plain white tub with what looks like a homemade label, basically a copy/paste of what's on their website. Sounds like the dosing instructions are based on what Oxolium says, but given the container I received I'm guessing it's pure OA?

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      Last edited by jcardona1; 4 Days Ago at 02:21 PM.
      ~ Jose

    16. #16
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by jcardona1 View Post
      That's interesting. So I wonder what is it that I received from Cascade Pond Supply? Last year I bought the 100 gram and it came in a plain white tub with what looks like a homemade label, basically a copy/paste of what's on their website. Sounds like the dosing instructions are based on what Oxolium says, but given the container I received I'm guessing it's pure OA?

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      Since Argent was the only company I know of with the ‘watered down’ OA then I would assume what you have is pure OA. I have never, ever used a dose the high and I have had success with every dose I have done.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    17. #17
      webted is offline Senior Member
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      Hi California:

      You should describe your quarantine setup. Dimensions, volume, filtration, air source and temperature. You want people to give you advice without giving them a complete picture, that’s what makes it annoying. You can take it personally or not, but you’ve still barely addressed the questions people already raised.

      -t

    18. #18
      California is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      Salt is available at Home Depot, Lowe’s etc. in 40 or 50lb. bags. The salt is usually in blue/white bags and has to be 100% pure salt with no additives. That fish was in your pond and so is the bacteria. You need to treat your whole pond.
      Understood, I need to treat the whole pond. My pond has 4500 gallons, a waterfall and a Ultima 6000 filter and a Sequence 4000 series pump, leaf trap and slimmer. It gets air through a waterfall. Here’s a photo of the pond while I was doing a water change.

      You said that I need to treat the entire pond, should I put the Sick fish back in the pond for the treatment or leave it in the quarantine tub for now and treat it separately in there? I have four other Koi in the pond, they all seem healthy under the circumstance that my pond set up is quite new and I’m trying to get all the levels right at the moment. I looked at them closely and they do not have any skin issue right now.

      Also, thank you for the explanation about the product, the one you posted a photo of is exactly the one I ordered. I ordered 500 g. Also, thank you for the explanation about the product issues
      , the one you post this is exactly the one I ordered. I ordered 500g of that powder. With all the confusion of the diluted dosage, how much of this powder would I have to put in my 4500 gallon pond with how much of this salt from Home Depot? Could you describe how to put it in there like I have to put it in one day and leave it for how long and then change the water and add it again or how is the process? I know there are a lot of questions. I appreciate it.

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    19. #19
      California is offline Junior Member
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      Quick follow up, the Fish started floating to the surface and laying on its side very close to being dead so I put him down. Above a few more question regards to treating my pond now with the other fish to make sure they are not going to die. Another question, how do I clean a quarantine set up like the pump and everything, do I use chlorine or I just let it dry out for a week what’s the procedure of getting something sanitized?

    20. #20
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      You need to put in 100mg per 250 gallons and you have 4,500 gallons. 4,500 divided by 250 is 18. 1800mg is 1.8 grams. You can figure out how much salt you need with the salt calculator on Koiphen


      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/koicalcs.php
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

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