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  • Results 1 to 19 of 19

    Thread: 2020 Yamabuki Ogon cross Gin Rin Platinum Ogon

    1. #1
      spkennyva is offline Member
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      2020 Yamabuki Ogon cross Gin Rin Platinum Ogon

      Here's a video (sorry for the quality) of the fry that resulted from Yamabuki Ogon (M) crossed Gin Rin Platinum Ogon (F). This spawning occurred in April 2020. This pairing resulted in very true offspring. All are nearly the same color. I have about 15-20% Gin Rin, with the bulk either normal scalation, or scattered scales (<10%).



      https://youtu.be/3k3ztai1rgc

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      Orlando is offline Senior Member
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      Very nice, I've never culled that variety but watch the lighter colored ones and pay close attention to the middle of the pack.

    3. #3
      spkennyva is offline Member
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      Thank you! This is my first time with this pairing, so all tips are appreciated

      Almost zero deformities and the fry seem very healthy. If these pan out, I will definitely repeat this next season.

    4. #4
      pondfishguy is offline Senior Member
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      You've got very good growth. Larger than my May spawn, though I'd guess yours are less crowded. How any gallons is the tank they live in?

    5. #5
      Matt24's Avatar
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      Nice ones again. Very good growth. What brand are the tiny pellets you are feeding them? I'm a little surprised the ginrin % was not higher since I thought it was a dominant trait.

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      spkennyva is offline Member
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      Yes, I was really hoping for a majority of ginrin. Not quite sure why the percentages were so low. Regardless, there are several with really nice ginrin. The mother is spectacular.

      Here's a link to the food I'm using (been using it for several seasons). https://optimalfishfood.com/product/optimal-starter-2/

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by pondfishguy View Post
      How any gallons is the tank they live in?
      Each tank is only a 100 gallons, but I use a flow through system. I have the ability to run either water from the main pond through the fry tanks, or trickle fresh well- water. This year I've taken the well water path. It's really not a lot of water that I push through the tanks, but enough to keep the water very clear. I do have large sponge filters in each tank just to grab any particulates that may accumulate.

      I have three other spawns that were not shown Goshki x Goshki (very small yield), Goromo x Goromo (I'll try to improve my video skills and post later), and Ogon x Sanke (just a late spring experiment).

    8. #8
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
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      I have never understood what to look for besides deformity when culling mono-colored fry.

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      Orlando is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by SimonW View Post
      I have never understood what to look for besides deformity when culling mono-colored fry.
      A few year's back I watched an interview with a koi breeder that was specifically addressing the culling of yamabuki, they are one of the most difficult to cull because of the wait time you have to see the scales to find the perfect ones with no blemishes in other words perfect alignment of the scales.

    10. #10
      Matt24's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by spkennyva View Post
      Here's a video (sorry for the quality) of the fry that resulted from Yamabuki Ogon (M) crossed Gin Rin Platinum Ogon (F). This spawning occurred in April 2020. This pairing resulted in very true offspring. All are nearly the same color. I have about 15-20% Gin Rin, with the bulk either normal scalation, or scattered scales (<10%).

      https://youtu.be/3k3ztai1rgc
      Sometimes lighting in photos/video can make it a little difficult (at least for me) to distinguish yellow from white in small koi. To you, do they look more white like the female, yellow like the male, or somewhere in between?

    11. #11
      spkennyva is offline Member
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      They seem to be transitioning from pale yellow to more white. However, none of them are as white as the female, and certainly none even come close to the male. My prediction is that most will be white - but my color/pattern predictions are far less than perfect. I was really hopeful that I'd get a ginrin Yamabuki, but that doesn't seem to be in the case right now - still hopeful!

    12. #12
      spkennyva is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      A few year's back I watched an interview with a koi breeder that was specifically addressing the culling of yamabuki, they are one of the most difficult to cull because of the wait time you have to see the scales to find the perfect ones with no blemishes in other words perfect alignment of the scales.
      Thank you for this information!! Very helpful.

    13. #13
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      A few year's back I watched an interview with a koi breeder that was specifically addressing the culling of yamabuki, they are one of the most difficult to cull because of the wait time you have to see the scales to find the perfect ones with no blemishes in other words perfect alignment of the scales.
      Thank you very much for the information!

      But is this problem not the same for all mono-colored koi like all the goi-varieties? Or is it problem more dominant for yamabuki due to the yellow color?

    14. #14
      Orlando is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by SimonW View Post
      Thank you very much for the information!

      But is this problem not the same for all mono-colored koi like all the goi-varieties? Or is it problem more dominant for yamabuki due to the yellow color?
      Only Yamabuki were being discussed and it appeared that if the colors were pretty even the scales would be the thing to look for also anything that's tending to be more on the orange shade you could cull if you need to bring #s down. If you need advice with young Goshiki I can help.

    15. #15
      spkennyva is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      Only Yamabuki were being discussed and it appeared that if the colors were pretty even the scales would be the thing to look for also anything that's tending to be more on the orange shade you could cull if you need to bring #s down. If you need advice with young Goshiki I can help.
      Again, Orlando, thanks for sharing your knowledge. The Yamabuki Ogon crossed with Gin Rin Platinum Ogon are looking very nice. I hope to get some photos within the next few weeks. I did 5 controlled matings this season and the Yamabuki are looking great. There are basically two colors showing, pure white and a very pale cream color. The head color is staying closer to white on these pale cream babies (4 to 5 inches). The gin rin on some of these is also looking very nice. Over all, I'm very pleased with the Yamabuki outcome.

      The Goshiki mating did not produce a lot of fish, I had high mortality very early. I hope to improve that next season. I will also post pics of the Goshiki and hopefully get your perspective. The growth is pretty good (a few are HUGE 8-9 inches).

      The Goromo mating also didn't yield big numbers, but I have about 50 that are looking decent. The growth is mixed, some very large (7 inches) and some still small (3 inches).

      The Sanke mating had the highest yield this season, with about 150 currently in the tank. The growth is pretty good and pretty uniform.

      The last was somewhat of an experiment, Sanke x Platinum Ogon (not gin rin). Might sound crazy, but some of the babies look very nice, with a couple very nice Hariwake. This spawn was delayed about 2 weeks from the others above and initial growth was painfully slow, so most of these are still pretty small. Also, lots of tobies that had to be moved early. About 200 babies remain, but a big cull is planned before winter. I hope to reduce this group to about 50.

      I hope to get pictures of everything before the cold sets in.
      Last edited by spkennyva; 5 Days Ago at 07:11 PM.

    16. #16
      Matt24's Avatar
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      Nice report Sean. Appreciate all the info and look forward to some photos.

      On the Sanke & Platinum cross. I got to thinking that yamato nishiki sort of resemble sanke if sanke were metallic. So I wonder if you would get a few that looked like yamato nishiki.

    17. #17
      spkennyva is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      Nice report Sean. Appreciate all the info and look forward to some photos.

      On the Sanke & Platinum cross. I got to thinking that yamato nishiki sort of resemble sanke if sanke were metallic. So I wonder if you would get a few that looked like yamato nishiki.
      Thanks Matt, I'm glad that you mentioned that because I'm seeing several metallic sanke. In fact, last year I crossed the same female sanke with a variety of males (mostly of Kujaku lineage) and got many yamato nishiki all of these are in the main pond, so I can't easily provide pictures, but my wife really likes these. There's no mistaking these as the metallic is strong.

      In the Sanke & Platinum cross, there is a wide variety, but most have some level of metallic showing, but there are non-metallics as well. Not sure I'll make this cross again, but each cross I do adds to my experience. What was really odd with this crossing was the extremely slow growth in the very early stage of development. Not sure why that happened, but it was certainly more difficult than the other crosses this past spring.

    18. #18
      Matt24's Avatar
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      I know it is a lot of work, but it's pretty cool all of the different spawns you have going on. Sounds like a good way to get lots of experience quickly with how spawning this or that breed goes and what to expect when you cross this with that. Have you been breeding koi for many years?

      Hope you (and everyone) keep lots of good written records of your oyagoi combinations, results, feeding, filtration, water conditions, etc .... After a few years, things you might think you'd never forget can start to blend together. I have to check back when I find myself going, "Did this happen in that spawn, or was it another spawn?"

    19. #19
      spkennyva is offline Member
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      This season was my 6th year breeding. Throughout the years I tweak my methods, and for the most part things have gotten better, but I still manage a few mistakes each season - this year was no exception. I've already planned changes to my tank systems for next season. I'm contemplating expanding my grow-out tanks too, but that's still in the dream stage. I absolutely know that I am still a total novice, so I am definitely here to learn from all of you, as well as share what few successes I can muster. I was mostly clueless for the first three seasons, but despite myself, still managed to make a few decent koi that are still with me. One of the biggest changes I've made over the last three years was to improve my breeding stock, and this year I also made a big improvement in water quality. This year, on average, my growth has been improved - not dramatically, but noticeable.

      I do keep some notes, but that's not my strong suit. I definitely keep records on parents, as I believe that this is fundamental to improving outcomes. One area I'd like to improve at is the first 10 days post egg hatch. BBS work well, but is a lot of work. This year, for later growth, I tried live Daphnia, but overall, (for me) the effort didn't pay off. I found it to be a lot of work to keep the culture going without getting a huge surplus for the fry. Not a good use of my time. I suspect that others, more skilled than I would have a different outcome. One thing that I've (mostly) done is to keep the fry separated so that I can really track outcomes. In the early years, fry from different spawns would get mixed together, leaving me somewhat guessing on their lineage. In the past few years, I've tried much harder to keep siblings together. I do have to pull tobies, so this still results in a "mixed" toby tank, but numbers are such that identification is pretty obvious.

      My overall goal is to make a few fish each year that I feel are good representations of their standards.

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