• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
    Results 21 to 27 of 27

    Thread: Koi changed behavior, do I need to do something

    1. #21
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      445
      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      Hard to be sure that I answer at least most of the questions. The fluke eggs will not be affected by the formalin malachite green. That is good for the costia, chilodonella, and other smaller parasites. As for the salt at 0.5%, some will say don't, but when I had a fish with very serious ulcer and dropsy, for osmoregulation assistance, I kept the fish for months at 0.8% with no damage.

      I still think it is possible that the pH is shifting during the day due to a low KH (carbonate hardness) and that can be irritating, causing flashing. In fact that would be about the only possible cause without parasites chewing on the fish.

      Fish problems generally fall into three categories, parasites, injuries, or water quality, and I generally like to take care of the water as it is needed even if the parasites and related injuries. Check the KH and get it above 100ppm, though I prefer over 150ppm.
      Thanks Richard!

      I have ordered drop pH-test. I have KH low right now because trichlorfon breaks down quickly in high pH. I have otherwise followed your advice very carefully!

      I plan to do fish tank swapping for the in-door small koi. I have a spared over-wintering tank, a new pump and new filter media. And new hose. After a shotgun treatment according to the guidance of koiphen the fish will be moved into the new set of tank. I will try to circle the biofilter in advance. No matter what this short summer is spoiled for my small koi!

      This fall (around the middle of September) when I take in my bigger koi I will give all of them a thorough shotgun treatment.

    2. #22
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      445
      Update:

      Since yesterday, the day after I added Fluke M and the second day after F-MG the small koi have finally got back good appetite. Thank you for all your help!

      Now I am thinking about 7 small koi (15-20 cm) that I just had moved out the day before I found fluke infection of the other small koi. They had lived together all the time, and they had also behaved strangely, so they must also had got fluke.

      The new home for them was an out-door plastic swimming pool with a volume of 2 m3. I had prepared it for this year´s fry. But I did not get any fry so it had not been used. The water quality was superb, never a fish in it for almost 2.5 months, duck-weed had eaten up all possible ammonia-nitrite-nitrate so the water turned gradually from green to super clear, and a lot of daphnia. I thought that it would be a waste if I never use it, therefore I put the 7 small koi in it, including my best small koi.

      Now the small koi is hiding among the plastic plants, so it is difficult to find them. I just see them occasionally when they dash from one hiding place to another. And apparently they are in good shape and are eating well, as the koi pellets I put there were eaten quite fast when I am absent.

      Now I am wondering: Do I need to catch them, examine them and give them the treatments if necessary, or in water with good water quality they can fight off the flukes by their own immune system? '

      Thank you for your suggestions!

    3. #23
      RichToyBox's Avatar
      RichToyBox is offline Administrator ~
      Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      14,128
      I would try to observe their behavior and let it dictate the need for treatment. Treatments are pretty harsh, so unless there is a definitive, I would not treat, and trying to catch them to scrape would be an unnecessary stressor unless you have reason to believe it is needed. Stay close enough to see what is going on. Most likely the reason they are hiding is because they perceive you as a predator, or there has been a predator.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    4. #24
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      445
      I think that an update may be interesting for some friends here:

      The small koi treated with Fluke M and F-MG are all recovered perfectly and been healthy since.

      Three weeks ago I examined the 7 small koi without treatment, and I found 3 of them in perfect shape, 3 some lesions (redness here and there), and 1 in terrible shape (redness over the whole body). Did scraping on the last one and found massive amount of fluke. I immediately treated them with Fluke M and F-MG 2X7 days, and all except the last one survived nicely. The heavily infested one was obviously killed by the medication.

      The bigger koi in the pond were treated later with about 0.8% salt. They have never been treated with fluke-M or F-MG. I left the salt in the pond with some gradual dilution by the rain water over the time, and 2 months later the salt concentration was 0.4%. The koi gradually reduced flashing over time, until they completely stopped flashing 4-5 weeks later. Obviously so much salt killed the parasites (fluke, costia, chilodonella) at last.

      I have an interesting question here: How much NaCl-concentration can koi handle in longer term, like more than one month? I was not very sure about the volume of the pond, so I am lucky that I have not killed them, as after I dumped all the salt into the pond at once (had to give the parasites a surprise-attack) they clearly became less active, and some of them showed even difficulty in keeping balance.

      Can koi live in 1% NaCl?
      Last edited by SimonW; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:58 PM.

    5. #25
      RichToyBox's Avatar
      RichToyBox is offline Administrator ~
      Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      14,128
      I am not sure about the maximum. The blood has a salinity of 0.9%, so having a water of 0.9% removes any osmotic pressure to have water enter or leave the body of the koi. I have used 0.8% for months on a koi that had a serious ulcer and was showing serious signs of dropsy from the kidneys not being able to maintain an internal water content that would maintain that 0.9% normal. Values of greater than 0.9 would tend to suck water out of the koi and I would expect that that would not take too long to damage the koi by dehydration.

      I was able to heal the fish above with that salt level.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    6. #26
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      445
      Thank you Richard. You had told me that your sick koi with ulcer lived for months in 0.8% NaCl, therefore this time I dared to do it with my bigger koi, with excellent result. Though it took quite long time before the koi stopped flashing.

      Therefore I wonder if anyone here has tried even higher NaCl-concentration than the normal physiological 0.9%, like 1.0%, or has knowledge on this issue.

      By the way, next time if my small koi become sick due to fluke I will test dipping them in 2-5% NaCl for 30 to 3 min.
      Last edited by SimonW; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:39 PM.

    7. #27
      RichToyBox's Avatar
      RichToyBox is offline Administrator ~
      Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      14,128
      I have seen dips in saturated salt solutions and within a few minutes the fish will roll over due to shock, but as soon as it does, remove and place in clean water and it will revive. Supposed to clear all parasites, except the embedded/encysted ones.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •