• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 7 of 7

    Thread: How do ginrin scales first appear?

    1. #1
      spkennyva is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2012
      Location
      Suffolk, VA
      Posts
      45

      How do ginrin scales first appear?

      I crossed a Platinum ginrin ogon and a Yamabuki ogon. Eggs were laid on May 5th. I put 25 of these fry into an inside tank so that I can clearly observe their development. So far all are looking very good, but about 1/3 of the fry show a non-standard scalation, with the remaining having standard scales. Of these with non-standard scalation, the scales appear larger, almost like you see when you cross scaled with Doitsu. I'd post a picture, but the scalation is VERY hard to see at this time.

      Does anyone know how ginrin first appear? I was hoping for a ginrin Yamabuki

    2. #2
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      351
      I have the same question!

    3. #3
      koi4u2c is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Southeast Virginia
      Posts
      2,899
      It has been a while, but I think the ginrin appeared fairly early on mine. I think it showed up when they were about 1 1/2 inch. You may start to see a sparkle first when the sun shines on them just right.

      Sounds like the non-standard scale are mirror carp.

      My gin rin spawn was from all ginrin parents, but I had a variety of gin rin, doitsu, doitsu with mirror scales along back and down the lateral line, and wagoi.

      Mine were butterly koi from Blueridge, and they sold all of these varieties.
      Nancy



    4. #4
      Matt24's Avatar
      Matt24 is offline Senior Member
      is watchin' em grow
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Oklahoma
      Posts
      1,611
      Congratulations on the spawn. I am very interested in what you get out of it, especially since I have a platinum ginrin ogon male and a two yamabuki ogon females. I wonder if they will all be yellow, all white, or a mix, and whether you will get any patterned koi.

      What you are referring to as non-standard scalation with scales appear larger, sounds like "scattered" scales. That comes from a recessive gene (small "s"). If either one of the parents or both had a double dominant gene pair "SS", there would be no fry with scattered scales. Your two must both be "Ss", which would typically result in about 25% (unless you had other koi in the spawn) having the bad looking scattered scales. [I am not sure the scales are actually larger, but because they are scattered and often not overlapping, you see the entire scale instead of just part of it as you would on a regular koi, which makes it seem larger.]

      Ginrin can be seen on fry when they are pretty young (not sure, maybe 1.0"-1.5"), but not when they are tiny. When you first see it on the fry, I doubt it is because it just arrived, but the fry is just now big enough that you can tell.

    5. #5
      spkennyva is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2012
      Location
      Suffolk, VA
      Posts
      45
      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      Congratulations on the spawn. I am very interested in what you get out of it, especially since I have a platinum ginrin ogon male and a two yamabuki ogon females. I wonder if they will all be yellow, all white, or a mix, and whether you will get any patterned koi.

      What you are referring to as non-standard scalation with scales appear larger, sounds like "scattered" scales. That comes from a recessive gene (small "s"). If either one of the parents or both had a double dominant gene pair "SS", there would be no fry with scattered scales. Your two must both be "Ss", which would typically result in about 25% (unless you had other koi in the spawn) having the bad looking scattered scales. [I am not sure the scales are actually larger, but because they are scattered and often not overlapping, you see the entire scale instead of just part of it as you would on a regular koi, which makes it seem larger.]

      Ginrin can be seen on fry when they are pretty young (not sure, maybe 1.0"-1.5"), but not when they are tiny. When you first see it on the fry, I doubt it is because it just arrived, but the fry is just now big enough that you can tell.
      Hi Matt,

      Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge on this issue. The bigger these fry get the more I'm sure you are exactly correct about the "scattered" scales and related genetics. I'm not s big fan of these scales, but gladly it is a small percentage of the fry. Back to the ginrin, I am now seeing the beginning (I think) of ginrin on a few fry. I'm not 100%, but pretty confident. The largest fry is about 1 inch, so it may be too soon to be totally certain. Still hoping for a big yellow sparkling koi.

      Also, as far as I can tell, all fry appear to be either white or yellow. There are a few exceptions that have some type of mark on the head, but their bodies appear as yellow or white. I'll update this thread once things develop further.

      Thanks again
      Last edited by spkennyva; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:39 PM.

    6. #6
      pondfishguy is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2018
      Location
      Los Angeles
      Posts
      254
      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      Congratulations on the spawn. I am very interested in what you get out of it, especially since I have a platinum ginrin ogon male and a two yamabuki ogon females. I wonder if they will all be yellow, all white, or a mix, and whether you will get any patterned koi.

      What you are referring to as non-standard scalation with scales appear larger, sounds like "scattered" scales. That comes from a recessive gene (small "s"). If either one of the parents or both had a double dominant gene pair "SS", there would be no fry with scattered scales. Your two must both be "Ss", which would typically result in about 25% (unless you had other koi in the spawn) having the bad looking scattered scales. [I am not sure the scales are actually larger, but because they are scattered and often not overlapping, you see the entire scale instead of just part of it as you would on a regular koi, which makes it seem larger.]

      Ginrin can be seen on fry when they are pretty young (not sure, maybe 1.0"-1.5"), but not when they are tiny. When you first see it on the fry, I doubt it is because it just arrived, but the fry is just now big enough that you can tell.
      I crossed a ginrin chagoi with an orange ogon last year. All the spawn were either chagoi or ogon. All solid. None patterned.

    7. #7
      Matt24's Avatar
      Matt24 is offline Senior Member
      is watchin' em grow
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Oklahoma
      Posts
      1,611
      Quote Originally Posted by pondfishguy View Post
      I crossed a ginrin chagoi with an orange ogon last year. All the spawn were either chagoi or ogon. All solid. None patterned.
      Interesting. I would not have expected good patterns from two different types of solid colored koi. But furthermore, I take it that you mean there were not even any with poor splotchy or speckled patterns, that they were all solid colored.

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •