• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 13 of 13

    Thread: Help needed with Koi

    1. #1
      Kira is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2020
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      5

      Unhappy Help needed with Koi

      I'm hopping that maybe someone when would see this thread would have some experience and ideas to what it could be with my koi.
      I have 3 out of my 18 koi in my pond that have problems since last year. The most problematic one is the gold koi that is seeing in first 2 photos. I'm not new to pond keeping and had ponds for many years and saw many deceases from parasites, ulcers to dropsy. This gold koi doesn't come to a category of anything i've ever seen. Start from the beginning: I got this koi in June 2016 and it was around 8''. It was a big eater and grew up very fast but remained regular nice shape until end of winter of 2019. Sometimes last year in 2019 at the end of February I noticed that it started to be quite fat, round in shape. It otherwise acted normal and didn't show any kinds of sickness. So i was thinking maybe it will lay eggs in the summer and become normal. But it never happened and it stayed fat and round all year. So I thought maybe it became this shape and will stay like that. It look weird as i've never seeing fish this fat, but since it didn't act sick and always had good appetite I didn't do anything. I wouldn't even know what to do anyway. But recently I've started to notice that it slowly started to get even fatter. and now till the point that the scales are stated to be raised and started to look like dropsy fish. It's still doesn't act sick, swims around, eats etc. But at this point I see that it must be something wrong. I'm not sure what I could do. I've had fish with dropsy before and they always showed sickness before they blow up and would never would stay alive that long after they blow up, only would make it maybe a week or 2, but this one has been fat like this for almost 1.5 years. But since it started to blow up more now i really worry about this fish and not sure what i should do. I've recently treated the pond with anti-parasite Broad Spectrum Disease Treatment, did 3 treatments, and then added praziquantel to the pond for 10 days. I do this precautionary treatments every spring. I was thinking that maybe this koi has some kind of intestinal parasites and possibly Prazi could take care of it but didn't see anything changed after Prazy treatment. I'm not sure if I should try the antibiotic injections, a bit afraid that the water is still not very warm and koi's immune didn't developed like it's in the summer and it maybe it would stress the fish more by taking it out and injecting it. I can also try to isolate it in the tab and put medications, but still not sure what would be the best approach. If anyone ever seeing anything like this and know what would be the best for this koi, your advice would be greatly appreciated. Now i'm thinking that it possibly could be either egg bound and can't release them for some reason or possibly it may have some kind of internal tumor, but wouldn't know what to do in either of those cases. the fist 2 photos is of the koi the way it looks now.
      The other 2 koi I also have problems are on the photo #1 and 3. One of them: photo #1 is the platinum koi (next to gold koi) that also last winter became very crooked, his spine looks like it has scoliosis. He just became this way all of the sudden last winter of 2019. He doesn't look or act sick but i was curious if anything could be done to correct it, or it'll be staying this way forever? And the 3rd fish i owned since 2012 and suddenly also last year it started to grow some kind of tumors in 2 places on its side as seeing on photo #3. It's started to grow over a year ago and noticeably getting bigger. I'm wondering if anyone had anything like this and what could be done with it? I once had a fish that grow tumors on it's fins and tale. I sedated it and cut tumors out, the koi was fine after procedure. It was easier since only fins and tale were involved. I could probably try to cut those tumors out in this koi but in this case it looks like it's kinda big and it's on the body not on the fins and I'm a bit afraid if i do cut it out the wound would be too big on his body and may not heal. So if anyone has any experience and/or ideas about any of this 3 koi i described any advice would be greatly appreciated. The rest of the koi are fine. BTW I know that some may be asking later: all the water parameters are normal. No ammonia or nitrites present PH pretty stable around 8.5. So whatever caused it it's not water parameters.
      Attached Images Attached Images    

    2. #2
      Marilyn's Avatar
      Marilyn is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      happy in the Heartland! 46071
      Posts
      17,283
      I believe the gold colored koi is either gravid, which is loaded with eggs, or has a very large tumor in that area. Since she had it before, I think it is likely eggs. It's pretty dire since her scales are standing out from her abdomen. I'm afraid I don't have a good suggestion for the severity of her problem. Once it gets to that stage, things are pretty bad. Ideally, she would have expelled the eggs by now. Perhaps one of the other advisors has gotten one through from this level and can further guide you.

      The koi with the kinked body looks to have had electrical shock damage. This can happen with stray current from a pump or something electric in the pond or even a lightning strike. There is no resolution to that kind of damage. I've never seen a koi achieve normal form after that kind of injury.

      The koi with the growths on it appears to have some kind of cancer, best guess. You could try and remove them. I've seen limited success in removing masses of that type. Healing won't be an issue if the procedure is done properly and your pond is healthy. By that mean the water is clean and absent of contaminants, filters are maintained properly, good aeration and the water parameters are maintained in healthy parameters.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    3. #3
      TurtleMommy's Avatar
      TurtleMommy is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2014
      Location
      NW Louisiana
      Posts
      254
      Hi Kira! It was me who sent you here from GPF! Glad to see your post, and I hope something can be done to help your babies — these folks are the best when it comes to sick koi!
      TurtleMommy

    4. #4
      Marilyn's Avatar
      Marilyn is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      happy in the Heartland! 46071
      Posts
      17,283
      Thanks for the referral, TurtleMomy. I'm sorry I didn't have better news for Kira. :sad:
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    5. #5
      Kira is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2020
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      5
      Thanks a lot for the reply. I saw suggestions somewhere on this forum, that someone recommended to separate egg bound fish and try not to feed and starve it for awhile hoping for it to absorb it's eggs as food. Not sure it it's good approach or not. Also so some videos about treatment of egg bound fish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQWcy2ECUYs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ0rDrIU430 He's talking about some hormone to inject fish not quite picked up the name of it from the video, but after some searching found this one: https://www.allivet.com/p-3061-choru...0-iu-10ml.aspx Not sure if it's correct one or not , but in any case you need a prescription to get it and of course i don't have it and nowhere to get it. I even called my vet that treats my cats, but no vet here is treating fish at all. I posted on the facebook of this doctor Loh, hoping to get some kind of advice, i'm very worried that this koi will not make it for long. Just getting to be too enormous: https://www.facebook.com/Aquarium-Fi...2365694544453/
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    6. #6
      Marilyn's Avatar
      Marilyn is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      happy in the Heartland! 46071
      Posts
      17,283
      Hi Kira, you could definitely try and qt her separately and see if you can work on egg absorption. It's a long shot but I think you know that.

      If you choose to do that, you'll need a way to regulate the temperature in her tank. We're heading into warmer months and you'll need a place where the water temp doesn't get too high. Absorbing eggs can take quite a while. I would keep her in a tank with healthy water (no ammonia or nitrite, maintained KH, steady temp) and take the salt to .6 and I would add a product called Elbagin. The dosing for that is 10 grams per 250 gallons of water. It is a mild antibiotic and therapeitic.
      I would redose it every 3 day for a total of three doses. I would maintain the raised salt level for a couple of weeks. If you see her begin to pinecone more, you can raise the salt to .8. Don't take it higher than that, IMO.

      Egg absorption means fasting her so please don't feed her during this.
      I've seen females stripped of eggs. I know some breeders do hormone injections and strip eggs. The problem you're facing is she is very far into this. The raised scales are indicative of a real issue for her.

      I think Cascade Pond Supply carries Elbagin. Billy is one of the vendors here.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    7. #7
      Kira is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2020
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      5
      Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn View Post
      Hi Kira, you could definitely try and qt her separately and see if you can work on egg absorption. It's a long shot but I think you know that.

      If you choose to do that, you'll need a way to regulate the temperature in her tank. We're heading into warmer months and you'll need a place where the water temp doesn't get too high. Absorbing eggs can take quite a while. I would keep her in a tank with healthy water (no ammonia or nitrite, maintained KH, steady temp) and take the salt to .6 and I would add a product called Elbagin. The dosing for that is 10 grams per 250 gallons of water. It is a mild antibiotic and therapeitic.
      I would redose it every 3 day for a total of three doses. I would maintain the raised salt level for a couple of weeks. If you see her begin to pinecone more, you can raise the salt to .8. Don't take it higher than that, IMO.

      Egg absorption means fasting her so please don't feed her during this.
      I've seen females stripped of eggs. I know some breeders do hormone injections and strip eggs. The problem you're facing is she is very far into this. The raised scales are indicative of a real issue for her.

      I think Cascade Pond Supply carries Elbagin. Billy is one of the vendors here.
      thanks Marilyn for all the advice. I'll definitely will try this. The only quarantine tank i have is a 100 gallons tab. It maybe a bit small, but at this point it's better then nothing. I'll definitely would try to separate her tomorrow. Raising salt will not be a problem, i've done it before. I couldn't find anything on the web about Cascade Pond Supply you mentioned or where i can get Elbagin. Do you know maybe a web link where i can get that staff? I've never deal with it. Just google search for it came out with nothing. Where this pond supply is located? or where else i can get the Elbagin? I'm located in north part on New Jersey. At this point i do have Nitrofuracin Green (mixture of antibiotics) on hand. Also have Hicari BiFuran, (https://webbsonline.com/Category/BiFuran) and Metro on hand. The temperature in the Q tank wouldn't be a problem as i have big aquarium heater that would keep the temperature in the Q tank stable. I don't have to worry for temperatures going too high as we not expecting any heat waives anytime soon and the heater would keep the temps from dropping low. As for hormone injections i'd really like to try it, but unfortunately it needs prescription to buy it and no-one would give it to me. I use to have a retired vet doctor that was dealing with fish that i used to do to and learn a lot from before. He could've probably given a prescription But unfortunately he was already old and died over a year ago. So now i don't know any vet around that deals with fish even just to give a prescription. Do you think i should sedate the koi and try to massage the belly to possibly squeeze at least some of the eggs out or it's already passed that point? She's still acting like healthy fish. eats like crazy swims normal, but her belly is starting to develop red sores already from stretching too much, so it's ;looking like something has to be done urgently. It's probably still possible that it could be a tumor not an egg bound. Or possibly combination of both. If it's some kind of tumor than it's realistically most likely not much could be done for her. I'll try my best to do what i can and hope for the best i guess.
      Last edited by Kira; 1 Week Ago at 11:05 PM.

    8. #8
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is is old and cranky
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      30,234
      Cascade Pond Supply... they're in Oregon (no sales tax! ):

      http://www.cascade-pond-supply.com/J...gin-p-989.html
      --Steve


      In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave,
      and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him,
      for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.

      ---Mark Twain

    9. #9
      Kira is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2020
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      5
      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Cascade Pond Supply... they're in Oregon (no sales tax! ):

      http://www.cascade-pond-supply.com/J...gin-p-989.html
      Thanks a lot for a link. I'll order it today. I couldn't find anywhere the dosage you have to put . Do you use a lot of it or not too much? Just not sure how many pockets i should order? Also i saw that they have different kinds of Elbagin, the one on the link JPD Pafurazine F (Elbagin) and also have original Original Elbagin: http://www.cascade-pond-supply.com/O...in-p-1169.html. which one is better? It would take awhile before i'd receive this stuff, if I isolate the fish now should i just use nitrofuracin green powder (this stuff or similar i do have on hand now: http://store.everythingaquatic.net/d...in-green-p-316 also do you think she would benefit from baytril injections? I always treat bacterial fish or fish with ulcers by injections of baytril (Enrofloxacin) following schedule 5 injections: first 3 days every day, then every other day for remaining 2. Do you think she could possibly benefit from the injections or just leave her along and just starve her for now?
      Last edited by Kira; 1 Week Ago at 11:21 AM.

    10. #10
      Marilyn's Avatar
      Marilyn is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      happy in the Heartland! 46071
      Posts
      17,283
      I listed the dosage in post #6. I have only used the original Elbagin so I am most comfortable with that one. Btw, the site has it listed as 10 grams per ton and a ton is 250 gallons.

      You could do a course of antibiotics but I am not sure an infection is her issue. If it were me, I would keep her in qt, do the Elbagin and salt, keep her say from 72-76 degrees and see if she improves. If she is heading downhill, I don't think the injections would hurt, I'm just not sure I would do them at this point.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    11. #11
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      1,658
      Why would eggs distort,in different directions the the belly of fish.

      Does the belly have different egg compartments that they are pushed into to create irregular lumps and bumps?

      Garfield
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    12. #12
      RichToyBox's Avatar
      RichToyBox is online now Administrator ~
      Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      13,926
      There are two egg sacks. The differential distortion is more a case of what area of the abdomen is weakest, allowing eggs to push them out. Tumors will cause similar swelling due to the growth of the tumor so it is often difficult at this time of year to tell which it is. Between April and June, generally, gravid females will shed their eggs during a spawn.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    13. #13
      Kira is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2020
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      5
      Thank you for all replies. I also posted it on Facebook page of fish doctor and just got a reply from him that he thinks that it could be ovarian cancer and possibly can be removed surgically. I know how to do some things with fish like injections or small removal of external tumors but if itís internal tumor I donít think i I could ever cut the fish and remove it myself Without killing the fish. and the only vet doctor that deal with fish I knew in my area unfortunately died over a year ago. So Iím trying to do what i can for this fish. So I separated this fish in 100 gallons quarantine tank 3 days ago and raised salt to 0.6 concentration plus added Nitrofuracin Green to the water. Per Marilyneís advice I ordered Elbagin, but Iíll likely get it maybe by the end of this week or even beginning of the next one. So Iím using Nitrofuracin Green for now. The tank is a bit small for it but itís the only one I have and could fit in the yard. I use small internal filter with mature filter media I took from my ponds waterfall filters, but apparently itís not sufficient enough because ammonia is rising in the q tank so I have to use ammonia removing products every other day to keep it down. Plus I keep 2 aquarium heaters to keep temperature stable at 74-77 degrees Fahrenheit. So far itís just amazing that this koi as bad as it looks all bloated and even lost some scales because of it really doesnít act sick and all. Even in this small containment where usually any koi I quarantined before was acting stressed and scared, this one not scared at all and all is doing is constantly looking for food and of course not finding it as Iím fasting her. This fish doctor recommended ovaprim as fish spawning agent. I located one company that sells ovaprim here in US:https://syndel.com/product/ovaprim/, but not sure if Iíll need prescription for it. Would have to call them after long holiday weekend is over. Does anyone think that I should do a massage of this koiís belly to try to push eggs out, or it would be past the helping point at this condition? Attached is close up of the koi in q tank
      Attached Images Attached Images   

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •