Ginrin Showa Spawn 2020

[Orlando]

Matt you have to make a list of what a future koi would look like for you wether is a ginrin or non ginrin Showa, my friend you have some outstanding prospects, well done and good luck

[spkennyva]

Nice update Matt. Really great growth!! I have also seen that once tosai are placed into my main pond that growth really accelerates (despite the intense competition for food) but that's probably simply a function of the life cycle and spring/summer water temps.

Any updates on the Kohaku in post 38?

[Matt24]

Matt you have to make a list of what a future koi would look like for you wether is a ginrin or non ginrin Showa, my friend you have some outstanding prospects, well done and good luck

I do have characteristics in mind, which apply whether or not they are ginrin. If they are ginrin, that's a bonus to me. Generally what I want is a good body shape, preferably on the robust side of average. I want a good mix of all three colors. Ideally, I'd like showa to have at least 20% coverage with each color, but I find that is very rare. The colors should be solid with a crisp edge, no messy areas, also rare. I am much more patient with the sumi, as I know it can change dramatically in short order. But it seems if the koi has weak, flaky hi, that's usually just how that one is going to be. As for pattern, I like for there to be sumi in different areas and hi in different areas, to make it interesting. Other than that, it doesn't have to follow any orthodox rules. That's the cool thing about showa, in that they all look so different from one another, even in the same spawn. I also prefer motoguru in the pectorals. Thanks for your encouragement Orlando.

[Matt24]

Nice update Matt. Really great growth!! I have also seen that once tosai are placed into my main pond that growth really accelerates (despite the intense competition for food) but that's probably simply a function of the life cycle and spring/summer water temps.

Any updates on the Kohaku in post 38?

Thanks Sean. I would put them in my big pond to accelerate growth if it weren't for an utterly gigantic blue heron that drops by. Herons like it have taken 9" koi before, and I am not sure where their size limit is. I've never had one larger than 10" taken, but a couple of 16" koi have gotten big scars on their heads over the years.

Unfortunately that kohaku did not work out due to a gill plate that was flared out. It's one of those types of deformities that I thought I was seeing earlier and had a bad feeling about, but I held on to it anyway until it got bigger and totally obvious.

[spkennyva]

Bummer, on both fronts. Sorry about the kohaku, I really hate that when one looks so promising then to later find a deformity...

Regarding the heron...I've lost my share to those winged devils. I had one frequenting my pond many years ago and caught it with a large fish on the grass (well over 10 inches) and as I ran towards it yelling as loud as possible, it first grabbed to fish off the ground an then took flight. He kept coming back periodically and we continued to loose fish. I now have 3 levels of defense (motion sprinkler, electric fence, and a full net. My wife is not a fan of the net, but it helps me sleep better.

This bird was so aggressive that I could physically chase it off, either myself, or with my dog and it would be back in about 15 minutes. Don't underestimate these birds!!

Check this:
https://earthsky.org/earth/incredibl...low-huge-fish/

[Matt24]

I pulled these up again last night to check development, and plan to post photos soon. ...

And here they are, posted in 3 groups:

• The 3 ginrin showa that have sumi arranged in "bands",
• the 3 ginrin showa that have sumi with less of a "banded" appearance,
• and then the 4 others, 3 non-ginrin showa and a ginrin hi utsuri.

[Matt24]

The 3 ginrin showa that have sumi with less of a "banded" appearance:

[Matt24]

The 3 non-ginrin showa and the ginrin hi utsuri:
[You may want to turn up your screen brightness a little, as I took all of these photos at night.]

[JoaoM]

Wow !

[spkennyva]

You really knocked it out of the park with this group. Really nice!!! When do you start shipping?

[Orlando]

[Matt24]

Thanks everyone! I have been thinking this group is the best of the ones I've done so far. I think it may be because the pairing of these two parent koi was arguably the best so far in terms of quality and similarity to one another.

[Matt24]

... the pairing of these two parent koi was arguably the best so far in terms of quality and similarity to one another. ...

I realize this might have given the impression that these oyagoi were expensive, but to be clear, they were not. I got her when she was very small, and he was a second-hand bargain, each for $100 or less.

...The female is a four-year-old that I got from a local dealer who said it was imported by Pan Intercorp. I got the male (now eight years old) second hand from a guy that likes to show his koi and only keeps females and says he got it from Andrew's Koi International. ...

[Matt24]

I dipped these up yesterday for a close look for the first time in 4 months. Since their pond is not near the patio like my big pond, they are not as used to seeing me, and they lay low, at least when I'm around. I had fed them mostly pellets, and they had not seemed to be going after them much. So though I hoped they had grown a couple of inches, I doubted it would be that much. But as it turns out, they had grown 3" on average. There's lots of stuff growing on the sides. Maybe they've been grazing a bunch at night. Still, at 9-12", they are not that large for a year and a half. The non-ginrin showa are larger than the ginrins.

I like the sumi pattern on the one below. The orange on the head is more red than on the body, and the body is lightened by the ginrin, magnifying the color difference.


This one always catches my eye too.


The ginrin showa below had the best growth, from 7.5" to 11".


I wonder if the underlying sumi on this one's head will come up. It has more of a kohaku-like hi pattern.


This one is more of a butterscotch color, with some yellow tint in the orange.


This one has an unusual color pattern, but I don't mind it. On the downside, I now see it has some orange specks in the white area. Also, it's mouth is a little down-turned.

[Matt24]

Here are three others that I will likely rehome at some point.

[spkennyva]

Fantastic Matt!! However, we may have to petition to start a new forum, because these results are clearly not from an "amateur breeder" !!

Congrats on such great results!

[Matt24]

Thanks Sean! Still now and always just an amateur, but I'm pleased to be getting a few that I think we will enjoy watching for years to come.

[Matt24]

Checking in on these remaining two-year-old showa that I am keeping in the same 1800 gallon pond with my one-year-old metallics. Unlike the one-year-olds which are all smooth the the touch, some of these showa feel gritty, which I believe is common for males that are old enough to spawn this time of year, while the females are smooth and slick.

These are kind of small for their age. The smallest two-year-old is the same length as, and lighter than, the largest one-year old metallic. All of the parent koi of both the showa and the metallics are in the 24" to 27" range. I don't recall where off-hand, but I had heard that koi with two ginrin parents tend to be small. Also noteworthy that the non-ginrins in this group are larger than the ginrins, though they come from the same two oyagoi.

• 10" ginrin female - Hope she does not get too much plumper than this. I like the pattern of the thick sumi.
• 12" non-ginrin male - Really like the sumi markings and redder hi.
• 12" non-ginrin female
• 11" ginrin male - His sumi is not as dark and defined as a few months ago.
• 10" ginrin female
• 9.5" ginrin male - This is the one with the downward turned mouth. A very unusual pattern, but needs the sumi on the head to finish and to grow a lot.
• 12" non-ginrin female - This one is slender that is typically a male trait, but still smooth, not gritty, so perhaps female.
• 11" ginrin female - Some nice qualities, but her sumi is not looking so good, nor is her shape.

[Matt24]

After 2.5 years, here's an update on the two five-year-olds that I still have out of this 2020 showa spawn. The female is 20" and the male is 18", both on the small side for this age.

[spkennyva]

Really nice Matt! Thanks for the update!