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  • Results 1 to 16 of 16

    Thread: Seachem Safe vs Prime dosing?

    1. #1
      Charlottekoi is offline Junior Member
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      Seachem Safe vs Prime dosing?

      Need some guidance.
      I've been using Seachem Prime (liquid form) for protecting the fish after a filter crash. Due to the amount of ammonia in the water, i've been having to use 4x the normal Prime dosage to keep the ammonia in check. (Seachem says you can use up to 5x the dosage of Prime in these situations)

      Now I'm converting to the powder form, Safe. I understand the recommended Safe dosing instructions but am curious about the following:
      * Is Safe more concentrated so that when i produce the recommended water/powder mixture it'll be stronger than Prime?
      * If not, and if the recommended dosage of Safe produces the SAME concentration as Prime, then I assume it would it be safe to use it at a 4x dosage as I did with Prime?

      I want to get this right! Thanks for your insights. gc

    2. #2
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      I haven't used Prime in years but I pulled this from their site for you:

      Safe:
      Use 1.25 g (1/4 tsp.) for every 1,250 L (300 US gallons) as needed to reduce chlorine and chloramine or use 1.25 g (1/4 tsp.) for every 300 L (75 US gallons) for ammonia.

      Prime:
      Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 200 L (50 US gallons) of new water. For smaller volumes, please note each cap thread is approximately 1 mL. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume. Sulfur odor is normal. For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    3. #3
      Charlottekoi is offline Junior Member
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      M,
      Yes, I've seen that on their website. i just wanted to confirm that the recommended dosage concentrations for both are the same. Thanks, gc

    4. #4
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      Their website says that this dosage is used for high levels of chloramines or high levels of Amonia , but doesn’t make it clear at what ppm levels it applies to.

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      Years ago , They said that 1/4 tsp per 300 gals treats .33ppm Amonia, 1.0 ppm Chloramines , and 1.4 ppm of Chlorine , and They say that the product has not changed , only their suggested dose instructions.
      So if You do the math , 1/4 tsp per 75 gals treats 1.32 Amonia, 4.0 ppm Chloramines , and 5.6 ppm of Chlorine.
      I use the 1/4 tsp per 75 gal as My standard dose in case My city adds allowable 4.0 ppm of Chloramines.

      Seachem says that You can dose up to four times that dosage , so that would mean that You can only treat up to 5.28 ppm of Amonia .

    5. #5
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      I dont think you can overdose on Safe... for my 1000 gallon pond overstocked with 13 koi, 6 nissai 6 tosai and 1 goldfish, I add 3 overfill tablespoons...

      I always wait when the 4kg goes on sale for $74 or if you can land a $51 open box from amazon...
      I always have 2-3 4kg tubs on hand...
      Last edited by Nguyen365; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:28 PM.

    6. #6
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      Prime neutralizes 122 mg chloramine per mL.

      Safe neutralizes 0.52 mg chloramine per mg.

      One mL of Prime is equal to 237 mg of Safe.

    7. #7
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      Use 1.25 g (1/4 tsp.) for every 1,250 L (300 US gallons) as needed to reduce chlorine and chloramine or use 1.25 g (1/4 tsp.) for every 300 L (75 US gallons) for ammonia.

      Seachem Safe website info:

      https://seachem.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...g-Instructions
      Nancy



      Koiphen 2013 Koi Person of the Year!

    8. #8
      KOIAnon is offline Member
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      The recommended dose of Prime neutralizes 3.2 mg/L chloramine.

      The recommended dose of Safe neutralizes 0.52 mg/L chloramine.

      If the typical chloramine level is 2-2.5 mg/L, how big of a water change can you do with Safe before putting your fish at risk?

    9. #9
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      Comparing Prime vs Safe is difficult because one is rated per volume , and the other is rated per weight .

      I did some price per dose comparisons between prime and safe .
      They both do virtually the same water conditioning , except (according to Seachems website ) , Prime detoxifies heavy metals , and safe does not .
      I found the cheapest prices per volume of each product on the internet , and used them to do the comparison.
      Prime 2L bottle for $44.00, and Safe 4 Kilo tub for $100. I’ll show the math below , but to summarize:
      I used a common dose for 300 gallons and an Amonia level of 1 ppm.
      For 300 gallons , prime takes 30 ml to treat 1ppm of Amonia at a cost of .66cents .
      ‘’ ‘’ , Safe takes 3.75 grams to treat 1ppm of Amonia at a cost of .09 cents .
      According to My calculations, Prime cost 7.3 times more than Safe to treat the same amount of Amonia.
      Here’s My math , feel free to double check .
      .
      Prime 2L bottle at a cost of $44.00
      Dose for 1ppm of Amonia = 5ml/50 gal,
      2L=2000ml, at $44 , it cost’s .022 cents /ml.
      At 5ml/50 gal. , it takes 30ml to treat 300 gals at 1ppm Amonia.
      Cost for 30ml to treat 300 gals. at 1ppm of Amonia = 66 cents .
      .
      .
      Safe 4 Kilo tub at a cost of $100.
      1.25g for 300gals. Treats .33ppm of Amonia , so
      Dose for 300 gals at 1ppm of Amonia = 3.75g.
      4kg = 4000g , at $100 , it cost’s .025 cents /gram.
      At 1.25 g / 300 gals. , it takes 3.75 g to treat 300 gals. at 1ppm of Amonia .
      Cost for 3.75 g to treat 300 gals at 1ppm of Amonia = 9 cents

    10. #10
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      The recommended doses of Safe and Prime don't neutralize the same amount of chlorine/chloramine.

      Seachem Prime 4 L $74
      122 mg chloramine per mL
      6.59 grams chloramine neutralized per dollar

      Seachem Safe 4 kg $90
      515 mg chloramine per gram
      22.9 g chloramine neutralized per dollar

    11. #11
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by KOIAnon View Post
      The recommended doses of Safe and Prime don't neutralize the same amount of chlorine/chloramine.

      Seachem Prime 4 L $74
      122 mg chloramine per mL
      6.59 grams chloramine neutralized per dollar

      Seachem Safe 4 kg $90
      515 mg chloramine per gram
      22.9 g chloramine neutralized per dollar
      .
      I don’t understand Your numbers , and You can’t figure ppm’s of Chloramines treated per dollar without the volume of water treated.
      .
      They need to make it clearer in their instructions, but They do recommend equal doses for Chloramines,
      Prime recommends a dose of 5ml/50 gals to treat 4ppm of Chloramines.
      Safe recommends a dose of 1.25 grams /300 gals to treat 1ppm of Chloramines , and a 4x dose to treat ‘’high levels’’ of Chloramines, which works out to be also 4ppm of Chloramines.
      Seachem needs to explicitly list a dose of each product for 1ppm to 4ppm of Chloramines, and define “‘ high levels’’ .
      I did the math for Doses to treat Chloramines using a volume of 300 gallons of water to be treated.
      .
      At the above price of $74 for 4L of Prime , each ml cost’ s .0185 cents .
      Since 5ml treats 50gals at 4ppm of Chloramines, It takes 1.25 ml to treat 50 gals at 1ppm of Chloramines, and 7.5ml to treat 300gals at 1ppm of Chloramines.
      At .0185 cents per ml, it would cost .138 cents to treat 300 gals of water at 1ppm of Chloramines.
      So let’s say 14 cents to treat that 300gals at 1ppm of Chloramines.
      .
      At the above Price of $90 for 4kg of Safe , each gram cost’s .022 cents.
      Since 1.25g treats 300gals at 1ppm of Chloramines, it would cost .0275 cents to treat that 300 gals.
      So at almost 3cents to treat 300 gals of water at 1ppm of Chloramines, Prime will cost 5 times as much as Safe .

    12. #12
      KOIAnon is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by catfish whiskers View Post
      I don’t understand Your numbers , and You can’t figure ppm’s of Chloramines treated per dollar without the volume of water treated.
      I don't use mg/L per dollar. I calculated grams per dollar.

      Quote Originally Posted by catfish whiskers View Post
      Since 1.25g treats 300gals at 1ppm of Chloramines, it would cost .0275 cents to treat that 300 gals.
      So at almost 3cents to treat 300 gals of water at 1ppm of Chloramines, Prime will cost 5 times as much as Safe .
      1.25 g per 1,250 L (the recommended dose) neutralizes 0.52 mg/L of chloramine.

      4,000 g therefore neutralizes 2,060 g chloramine for 22.9 g chloramine per dollar.

      Safe is around 3 times more cost effective.

      There's a liquid dechlorinator that in its 16 oz version neutralizes 25.11 grams per dollar.

      The most cost effective commercial dechlorinator neutralizes 91 grams per dollar.

    13. #13
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by KOIAnon View Post
      I don't use mg/L per dollar. I calculated grams per dollar.



      1.25 g per 1,250 L (the recommended dose) neutralizes 0.52 mg/L of chloramine.

      4,000 g therefore neutralizes 2,060 g chloramine for 22.9 g chloramine per dollar.

      Safe is around 3 times more cost effective.

      There's a liquid dechlorinator that in its 16 oz version neutralizes 25.11 grams per dollar.

      The most cost effective commercial dechlorinator neutralizes 91 grams per dollar.
      I don’t understand how Chloramines can be measured by weight in grams other than concentration by weight as mg/L and ppm ?
      The most recent instructions from Seachem state that 1.25g / 300gals of safe treat 1ppm of Chloramines , and that supersedes all previous instructions.

    14. #14
      KOIAnon is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by catfish whiskers View Post
      I don’t understand how Chloramines can be measured by weight in grams other than concentration by weight as mg/L and ppm ?
      Mass = concentration * volume.

      Feel free to crunch the numbers yourself:

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      Quote Originally Posted by catfish whiskers View Post
      The most recent instructions from Seachem state that 1.25g / 300gals of safe treat 1ppm of Chloramines , and that supersedes all previous instructions.
      Well, it's wrong. By their own admission, they didn't change the formula yet reduced the recommended dose six-fold.

    15. #15
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by KOIAnon View Post
      Mass = concentration * volume.

      Feel free to crunch the numbers yourself:

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      Well, it's wrong. By their own admission, they didn't change the formula yet reduced the recommended dose six-fold.
      Thanks , You’ve got Me studying more in depth.
      I’ve been using the 1.25g /75gal dose , thinking that It was treating for 4ppm of Chloramines , when in reality, it might be only treating for 2ppm of Chloramines. I think I’ll start increasing My dose by 50%

    16. #16
      KOIAnon is offline Member
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      Dang, I attached the Prime one twice

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      Attached Images Attached Images  

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