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  • Results 1 to 8 of 8

    Thread: Redness around mouth

    1. #1
      dambross is offline Junior Member
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      Redness around mouth

      Hello, I have two koi fish who have redness around their mouths. I had a third with redness and then starting showing deterioration of the fins so I quarantined and used a bacterial supplement and the fish died two days later. I am concerned about the other two fish. Suggestions on if this is bacterial? What caused this and how do I treat moving forward.

      Thank you

    2. #2
      trapper is offline Senior Member
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      Can you post a couple high def pics so we can see?
      What are your water parameters?

    3. #3
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      The description could be caused by anything. Because it is mandatory to have excellent water for healing to take place and poor water quality can be the cause of problems, we like to start with numbers. We need ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH morning and evening, and KH. The tests we prefer are from drop type test kits, like API, and not the dip strips which are notorious. Because ammonia burns the fish, like it will burn your nose to sniff a bottle of ammonia, it damages gills and irritates skin. Nitrite converts the red blood cells to brown blood cells that cannot carry oxygen, basically suffocating the fish. Large pH swings morning to evening are also irritating, sometimes swinging from acidic to basic and back. At this time of the year, the fish wake up and start moving around, often feeding, and the level of ammonia production goes up, the filters have not had to take care of that level of pollution in several months, so the bacteria colonies population falls back and it takes time to catch up, so this is the time many have problems. Let's start with the water numbers and then we can move forward.

      BTW are the fish acting strange, flashing, piping, breaching, isolating, .........?

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    4. #4
      dambross is offline Junior Member
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      Redness around mouth

      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      The description could be caused by anything. Because it is mandatory to have excellent water for healing to take place and poor water quality can be the cause of problems, we like to start with numbers. We need ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH morning and evening, and KH. The tests we prefer are from drop type test kits, like API, and not the dip strips which are notorious. Because ammonia burns the fish, like it will burn your nose to sniff a bottle of ammonia, it damages gills and irritates skin. Nitrite converts the red blood cells to brown blood cells that cannot carry oxygen, basically suffocating the fish. Large pH swings morning to evening are also irritating, sometimes swinging from acidic to basic and back. At this time of the year, the fish wake up and start moving around, often feeding, and the level of ammonia production goes up, the filters have not had to take care of that level of pollution in several months, so the bacteria colonies population falls back and it takes time to catch up, so this is the time many have problems. Let's start with the water numbers and then we can move forward.

      BTW are the fish acting strange, flashing, piping, breaching, isolating, .........?
      I was able to snap some pictures. I recently did a 60% water change, and have been actively testing the follow:

      pH; around 8.0
      Ammonia: 0ppm
      Nitrite: 0ppm
      Phosphate: 0-.25ppm

      I use a pond master API test kit. I lost one fish already who had redness around the mouth and tail/fin rot happening. I tried to isolate and the fish died in the quarantine tank. My water is currently very green/murky but have been using microbe-lift barely straw for the past two weeks to address. I used Algaefix about a month ago and the fish did not like but the Algae has come back stronger.

      The fish that died in my quarantine tank I was using Microbe-lift Sabbactisun and it was recommended I try to use a combo of Pimafix and Melafix instead. Looking for any advice based on the attached pictures on what to do next.

      All fish are still in the main pond so need to know if I should move the infected to quarantine tank etc.

      Fish are not isolating at this time...though the one that died in my qurantine tank was and it had bad red mouth rot and tail/fin rot. All others with redness around mouth are still social and eating for now.

      Thank you kindly,
      Steve
      Attached Images Attached Images    

    5. #5
      Asagibottom is offline Senior Member
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      API test kits do go bad. Check with a seachem tag also- or another drop test. Mine go faulty every 6 months or so. I use 2 seachem tabs now. I recommend checking your parameters again- mainly the ph and ammonia. Looks like rot- bacterial infection... but the question is why

    6. #6
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      Two issues, the first is the infection around the mouth. My preferred treatment would be to use Tricide Neo, a powder that can be used directly as a swab on the site of infection as some have done, or mix 1/4 of the one gallon size packet with a quart of distilled water and with a spray bottle, spray the fish, including gills, wetting the fish in a similar fashion to the directions for immersion. The reason for the spray is that the immersion takes too much material and then straining and refrigerating the balance is an issue, or cost of multiple packets. The quart bottle can be refrigerated easily, is uncontaminated, and doesn't take long to warm up.

      The second problem is the algae. Algae thrives on ammonia and in the spring when the filters are not up to the population needed to process the ammonia being generated by more active fish, the algae blooms. This is good in that the algae consumes the ammonia that the filters would be converting, thereby protecting the fish from the damages and stresses of living in high ammonia water. As the filters come out of the winter doldrums, the algae will die due to starvation. The bad thing with algae is it also needs sunlight for photosynthesis. During the daylight hours it is consuming carbon dioxide and giving off oxygen, and carbon dioxide is acid, so the water swings to a high pH in late afternoon. During nighttime hours the algae reverses processes and gives off carbon dioxide and consumes oxygen. The consummation of oxygen at night causes many fish to pipe due to oxygen starvation. The increased carbon dioxide causes the pH to fall overnight. With good aeration and a good level of KH and calcium, the pH can be controlled by boiling off the carbon dioxide, or with KH and calcium create calcium carbonate precipitate consuming the carbon dioxide. Be particularly diligent in watching for any swing morning to evening.

      Algaefix will kill the algae, which may cause an increase in oxygen demand as the algae biodegrades. Algae in good water will go away on its own.

      I have not had any experience with Microbe-lift Sabbactisun or a combo of Pimafix and Melafix . I have used Melafix, but the general feeling is that the one helped the most by the use of Melafix is the manufacturers pocket. It makes the water smell and creates a lot of bubbles, but being an oil, it also coats the fish and the fishes gills. Covering the gills can't be good for respiration.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    7. #7
      dambross is offline Junior Member
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      I tried to repost but I am not sure where it went.

      In short, wanting to know how often I use the Tricide Neo. How often do I spray each fish? Do I use only 1/4 of the mix or do I keep making new batches until the packet is gone.

      Also, do I need to keep the fish in a quarantine tank or can I put them back into the pond after administering (spraying) fish with medication.

    8. #8
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      On the packet, there are directions for immersion treatment. I used the same directions, just used the spray as it conserves the material making it much more economical. If I remember correctly, it was daily for three treatments. Can't remember the duration, 5 minutes?, but keep the fish wetted for the directed duration with the spray.

      As for mixing, mix one fourth of the one gallon size packet of powder with a quart of distilled water, saving the other 3/4 for future batches, freezing in a ziplock bag to preserve freshness.

      I was able to readily catch fish from the pond so I put them back in the pond after each treatment, but for those that have problems catching fish, I would say an isolation tank would make more sense.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

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