• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 18 of 18

    Thread: Small female egg-bearing?

    1. #1
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      372

      Small female egg-bearing?

      Hello friends:

      I have several very small Israeli ginrin sansai (bought 2017 as tosai), only 30-40 cm. One of them has recently developed a very round belly. I didnīt notice it when I moved it inside last October.
      Is it possible that it is a female and egg-carrying?

      I would like to know your smallest female koi that have spawned, thanks!

    2. #2
      Orlando is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2017
      Location
      Orlando
      Posts
      745
      I've seen 12" stunted female carry eggs and spawn in my friends pond and she was 3yrs old.

    3. #3
      Matt24's Avatar
      Matt24 is offline Senior Member
      is watchin' em grow
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Oklahoma
      Posts
      1,620
      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      I've seen 12" stunted female carry eggs and spawn in my friends pond and she was 3yrs old.
      Long ago, I had a female that, as best I recall, was about that size and age that flock spawned. She was being pursued by 4 larger males, and did something that I have never seen another female koi do. I had large flat rocks standing nearly vertical, leaning against the side of the pond. When she had had enough of the rough treatment, she would find a place behind a rock to hide from the big males. Then she would come out and continue spawning about three days later. And then she did this process again. So she laid all her eggs in three different spawning sessions, spaced out over a week. In all, she appeared uninjured.
      Last edited by Matt24; 04-30-2020 at 12:40 AM.

    4. #4
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      372
      Another question:

      We have an exceptionally cold spring this year, so I have not been able to move my koi out-doors. They are still in the over-crowded over-wintering tank in-doors.

      Therefore I wonder: How long can the female carry mature eggs before the eggs being reabsorbed? The water temperature for my in-door tank is 20 centigrade. (Water in the out-door pond is only 8 centigrade).
      Last edited by SimonW; 05-19-2020 at 08:03 PM.

    5. #5
      Matt24's Avatar
      Matt24 is offline Senior Member
      is watchin' em grow
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Oklahoma
      Posts
      1,620
      Not sure how long a female will carry eggs before absorbing them, but it seems they can carry eggs for a long time, months. I've had them spawn in early July a couple of times. I've heard of koi spawning in the fall. I don't know if they do this by holding old eggs for months or by absorbing old eggs and creating new ones at the same time. But somehow, in seems they can extend the season of their fertility.

    6. #6
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      372
      The outdoor pondīs water has finally reached 15 centigrade, and I moved out the small female together with one sure male yesterday. Waiting for weather changes to trigger the spawning!

      Just to be sure: Could anyone conform that these are 1 female and 1 male? I know that these are low quality koi, but still good enough for me right now. (When I have more time for koi I would probably get better koi). Name:  20200603_171718.jpg
Views: 64
Size:  35.6 KBName:  20200603_171748.jpg
Views: 63
Size:  25.9 KB

    7. #7
      Matt24's Avatar
      Matt24 is offline Senior Member
      is watchin' em grow
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Oklahoma
      Posts
      1,620
      Quote Originally Posted by SimonW View Post
      … Could anyone conform that these are 1 female and 1 male? ...
      Just looking at the body shape, the first one looks like a VERY eggy female. Unless it is immature, the second one is very likely male. It can be tricky if the koi is two years old or younger.

    8. #8
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      372
      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      Just looking at the body shape, the first one looks like a VERY eggy female. Unless it is immature, the second one is very likely male. It can be tricky if the koi is two years old or younger.
      Hello Matt, thank you!

      Now I am 100% sure that the first one is a female, as it bleed from the gills when I took it out. Later I read that mostly female koi do this when stressed. The second one is 3-year-old and only 40 cm.

      I have another girin male (bekko) I planned to use for this spawn, but later I found that its head is slightly asymmetrical, and its ginrin is not even either. I wonder if these defects are genetic.

      I have more koi that most likely are male, but they are either too small or not with non-metallic white background color. One ochiba which is probably too big and can hurt this little female (the female is only about 35 cm while the ochiba is over 60 cm), one orange koi (called orenjigoi?) and several hariwake. Will it be nice result if hariwake male spawn with sanke female?

      I also have a bigger female, light yellow gin matsuba. Will it be good result if I let her, this little girin sanke female, this sanke and several hariwake do a flock spawn? I like white koi with patches of any color combinations.

      Thanks again for your thoughts!
      Last edited by SimonW; 06-05-2020 at 07:12 AM.

    9. #9
      Matt24's Avatar
      Matt24 is offline Senior Member
      is watchin' em grow
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Oklahoma
      Posts
      1,620
      Quote Originally Posted by SimonW View Post
      … Now I am 100% sure that the first one is a female, as it bleed from the gills when I took it out. Later I read that mostly female koi do this when stressed. ...
      Yes. In my experience, it is usually females that do that. Seems like about half of them but they may not do it every time. I've only had one male that would bleed from the gills like that, and he would do it every time. And yes I am sure he was male, as I had him ~16 years before re-homing, and saw him in the flock spawns multiple times.

    10. #10
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      372
      It had been very sunny until yesterday when it rained, and just as I predicted they spawned!

      The water temperature is only 13 centigrade. So I wonder if someone could help me with following questions:

      1) How long will the egg hatch in water with temperature of 13-15 centigrade?

      2) Is it good with temperature changes daily? If I let the Sun shine on the tank the water temperature can rise to 25 centigrade during the mid-day, and then in the night the temperature drop to 15 centigrade.

      Thanks!

    11. #11
      Asagibottom is offline Senior Member
      is Going going goners
       
      Feeling:
      Amused
       
      Join Date
      May 2018
      Location
      Nowhere
      Posts
      415
      You will want to keep the temperature as consistent as possible to prevent death.
      Cover it to prevent ph swing from algae. Make sure to bind ammonia and to a pretty heavy cleaning/water change early. Filter system and aeration are critical. Might take 4 days to hatch. Good luck. Hope your spawn goes better than mine. Get some fry food ready.

    12. #12
      Matt24's Avatar
      Matt24 is offline Senior Member
      is watchin' em grow
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Oklahoma
      Posts
      1,620
      Congratulations on the spawn Simon!

      (1) Don't be alarmed if day 5 rolls around and they have not hatched yet. Those are pretty cool temps. 13-15 C would be 55-59 F.

      (2) They can take some moderate temperature fluctuation, but a rapid 10 C change in water temp is way too much. Have you got them in a small above ground shallow container or something? Otherwise, I would not think it possible to have that much water temperature swing from night to day and back.

    13. #13
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      372
      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      Congratulations on the spawn Simon!

      (1) Don't be alarmed if day 5 rolls around and they have not hatched yet. Those are pretty cool temps. 13-15 C would be 55-59 F.

      (2) They can take some moderate temperature fluctuation, but a rapid 10 C change in water temp is way too much. Have you got them in a small above ground shallow container or something? Otherwise, I would not think it possible to have that much water temperature swing from night to day and back.
      Thanks matte and Asagibottom!

      Yes, it is 80-liter tubes standing on the ground. I will do as you and Asagibottom said cover them in the night and give them shade in the day-time!

    14. #14
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      372
      By the way, my hope with this spawn is to have some nice ginrin babies (good pond grade is good enough for me though). I have followed several threads but I have not got it yet: When will the fry show stable ginrin so that I can select soley based on ginrin?

      Another question is: Will bonsai-koi be something? Those parent koi are very small, so I guess they have genes for smaller size. Usually people think that jumbo size is attractive.

    15. #15
      Matt24's Avatar
      Matt24 is offline Senior Member
      is watchin' em grow
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Oklahoma
      Posts
      1,620
      Quote Originally Posted by SimonW View Post
      … When will the fry show stable ginrin ...
      Stable ginrin? I did not know there was such a thing as unstable ginrin. Every ginrin koi that I recall having stayed about the same as far as I noticed. I have heard it said that ginrin koi have more shine when they are very young. I have not observed this myself.

      I don't know much about bonsai koi. You might check some of the information on this thread:
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...354-Bonsai-Koi

      Seems like it would be especially challenging to grow koi large in a cold climate. Two keys are plenty of food and lots of water. Best chances are with female solid colored koi known for and bred for growing large such as chagoi, soragoi, karashi, or yamabuki ogon.

    16. #16
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      372
      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      Stable ginrin? I did not know there was such a thing as unstable ginrin. Every ginrin koi that I recall having stayed about the same as far as I noticed. I have heard it said that ginrin koi have more shine when they are very young. I have not observed this myself.

      I don't know much about bonsai koi. You might check some of the information on this thread:
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...354-Bonsai-Koi

      Seems like it would be especially challenging to grow koi large in a cold climate. Two keys are plenty of food and lots of water. Best chances are with female solid colored koi known for and bred for growing large such as chagoi, soragoi, karashi, or yamabuki ogon.
      Thank you Matt!

      Sorry that I was not clear there. What I meant was when I can see which fry is ginrin which is not, so that I can select them. Maybe ginrin starts very early? I am quite excited and cannot wait to see ginrin babies.

    17. #17
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      372
      Update:

      Seems that all the eggs are dead, covered with fungi. I guess that the fertilization did not work. I will wait 1 week and see if I have some viable eggs there.

    18. #18
      Matt24's Avatar
      Matt24 is offline Senior Member
      is watchin' em grow
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Oklahoma
      Posts
      1,620
      Sorry to hear that, but like you said, give them time. Even if only one out of a hundred hatches, that's still quite a few fry.

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •