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    Thread: Bakki Shower/sieve help

    1. #21
      Asagibottom is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by catfish whiskers View Post
      Sorry , but I do not see how You came up with any of this from Our conversation, and the ideas that I shared with You.
      Pump feeding from the skimmer circuit is Fine , but that sieve (if You want to call it that) above the shower ,if I understand Your drawing correctly, is a poor idea . A microscreen fine enough to filter water clean enough for a shower , would be a maintenance nightmare . You have plenty of room to use a better DIY mechanical filter(s) like a Sand & Gravel filter , or a static K1 filter .
      Wow man, I've got to applaud you for being frank, just didn't expect it to come with that kind of tenacity. I appreciated our conversation, however, I am not willing at the moment to completely unearth 40+ hours of my life and $800 to replace my settlement tank. So, as you mentioned, I could supply a shower from my skimmer - that is the part I was referring to - and get some good bio and mechanical that way.

      Maybe you understand the design poorly. Half of a 28" long container would be a house for the particulates that come out of the water, thus removing them from the water column. They would sit on the side. I will also plumb in (not pictured) a small pipe with a ball valve that cleans the screen (off of the 2" pipe side). It won't be a maintenance nightmare because there is sufficient room for the particulates removed from the pond to sit until I have time to open the valve to let them out. I imagine I will have to clean it more toward the beginning and more in the summer (perhaps thrice a week or even once a day) which is fine because I plan to visit my pond often anyway and it gives me something to do while I'm enjoying my fish. The detritus that I scoop out often will be rewarding as well

      I think a static K1 filter is a great idea but it'll take me some time to implement. I'm not a fan of S&G filters. I think my 100 micron mesh is enough filtration for a shower, heck 200 might even do the trick. I've got ceramic media all throughout the remaining 3 columns of the shower.

      I will say, I appreciate everyone's advice and insight and opinions here but elitism sucks. If we're going to learn and grow, we've got to do it tactfully. I think someone once said, "No one cares what you know until they know that you care." and that's just plain true. You could have the best ideas in the world and a complete pill and it won't matter much! I've noticed some elitism on these forums, and not just in the matters of koi keeping but overall pond construction and while this is a post for another thread, I'm fired up and ready to share it. We're all at different places and let's be honest, we're all pretty pathetic. We're attempting to emulate what nature does naturally and often times with much failure. Even Japanese koi farms experience KHV and other diseases, parasites, construction fails, etc... from time to time. Hence why new filters are always being produced and manufactured. It's a learning process individually and as a community.

      Rant over.

      Does anyone have anything that I might do to Add to or improve this design?

    2. #22
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
      catfish whiskers is offline Supporting Member ~ WWKC President
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      I’m trying to dissuade You (and anyone else that reads this ) from wasting Your time in building a poorly designed and inefficient filter system , it is not meant to be criticism . How You take the advice is up to You .

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Asagibottom View Post
      Wow man, I've got to applaud you for being frank, just didn't expect it to come with that kind of tenacity. I appreciated our conversation, however, I am not willing at the moment to completely unearth 40+ hours of my life and $800 to replace my settlement tank. So, as you mentioned, I could supply a shower from my skimmer - that is the part I was referring to - and get some good bio and mechanical that way.

      Maybe you understand the design poorly. Half of a 28" long container would be a house for the particulates that come out of the water, thus removing them from the water column. They would sit on the side. I will also plumb in (not pictured) a small pipe with a ball valve that cleans the screen (off of the 2" pipe side). It won't be a maintenance nightmare because there is sufficient room for the particulates removed from the pond to sit until I have time to open the valve to let them out. I imagine I will have to clean it more toward the beginning and more in the summer (perhaps thrice a week or even once a day) which is fine because I plan to visit my pond often anyway and it gives me something to do while I'm enjoying my fish. The detritus that I scoop out often will be rewarding as well

      I think a static K1 filter is a great idea but it'll take me some time to implement. I'm not a fan of S&G filters. I think my 100 micron mesh is enough filtration for a shower, heck 200 might even do the trick. I've got ceramic media all throughout the remaining 3 columns of the shower.

      I will say, I appreciate everyone's advice and insight and opinions here but elitism sucks. If we're going to learn and grow, we've got to do it tactfully. I think someone once said, "No one cares what you know until they know that you care." and that's just plain true. You could have the best ideas in the world and a complete pill and it won't matter much! I've noticed some elitism on these forums, and not just in the matters of koi keeping but overall pond construction and while this is a post for another thread, I'm fired up and ready to share it. We're all at different places and let's be honest, we're all pretty pathetic. We're attempting to emulate what nature does naturally and often times with much failure. Even Japanese koi farms experience KHV and other diseases, parasites, construction fails, etc... from time to time. Hence why new filters are always being produced and manufactured. It's a learning process individually and as a community.

      Rant over.

      Does anyone have anything that I might do to Add to or improve this design?
      I want to be sure I understand... so Jeff (catfish whiskers) took the time to talk to you on the phone personally and
      gave you advise that you chose to ignore... and he tried to point out the errors you were making and now you
      accuse him of "elitism"?
      No one has to follow any advise anyone gives. It's your pond. But you're here seeking advise. We're all here because
      we've probably tried something similar that didn't work and we try and prevent people from doing the same. I've gone
      ahead and tried things that weren't recommended and mostly after I did them I could see it for myself. Sometimes I
      just wanted to try it... but Jeff is as far as an elitist as I can imagine.

      Good luck on your project.
      --Steve


      In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave,
      and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him,
      for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.

      ---Mark Twain

    4. #24
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      Alright everyone bring it in for a group hug.
      Ponding is an adventure enjoy the learning journey.
      Last edited by Nguyen365; 04-07-2020 at 12:07 AM.

    5. #25
      Asagibottom is offline Senior Member
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      Sorry if I came across sharply. Didn't mean it that way. I suppose I just felt that to call someone's design "poor" is rather discouraging. Not everyone is on the same level and I'll be the first to admit I've not got near as much experience as some of you. However, I guess when I or anyone else would bring a design to the table, I would expect there to be some discussion of why it wouldn't work. Jeff, I want to personally apologize. Thank you for the time you spent talking to me. I found your help very insightful. I don't think I'm going to take the advice though. I've got to start where I'm at. So my question then is, (and you don't have to offer advice if you don't want!) where I'm at in the design, what could I do to improve it? I want a sieve/bakki. That's what I'm going for. Has anyone personally tried it and it not worked at all? I'm not opting for 100% efficiency, never have to clean it, never have to touch it, filters 1000ppm ammonia per hour. I just want a filter that filters fine enough. I'm not in it for the best. Just want what works for me for now. I bought some tubs, let's do this.

    6. #26
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      https://youtu.be/Ei_YygD6XQ0
      Skip to 3:52 maybe looking at this see through DIY sieve will help with your design..

    7. #27
      Asagibottom is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nguyen365 View Post
      https://youtu.be/Ei_YygD6XQ0
      Skip to 3:52 maybe looking at this see through DIY sieve will help with your design..
      Hey thank you- that filter is just as nice to look at as the fish. Wow.

    8. #28
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Asagibottom View Post
      Sorry if I came across sharply. Didn't mean it that way. I suppose I just felt that to call someone's design "poor" is rather discouraging. Not everyone is on the same level and I'll be the first to admit I've not got near as much experience as some of you. However, I guess when I or anyone else would bring a design to the table, I would expect there to be some discussion of why it wouldn't work. Jeff, I want to personally apologize. Thank you for the time you spent talking to me. I found your help very insightful. I don't think I'm going to take the advice though. I've got to start where I'm at. So my question then is, (and you don't have to offer advice if you don't want!) where I'm at in the design, what could I do to improve it? I want a sieve/bakki. That's what I'm going for. Has anyone personally tried it and it not worked at all? I'm not opting for 100% efficiency, never have to clean it, never have to touch it, filters 1000ppm ammonia per hour. I just want a filter that filters fine enough. I'm not in it for the best. Just want what works for me for now. I bought some tubs, let's do this.
      Apology accepted , and I had no intension to insult . I was being Frank , but not to hurt any feelings , but rather to be helpful.
      Hereís why I think that a sieve above a shower will not work properly.
      A true sieve uses a wedgewire screen that is almost self cleaning and virtually clog free. They are typically 250 to 300 microns , and any finer micron than that will clog too easily.
      A shower filter needs the cleanest water possible , not just for health of the bacteria that lives in the shower media. , but also because typical shower media is hard to clean without destroying the media Itself , as well as the destroying the bacteria.
      Micron screens in RDF filters are usually around 50 microns , thatís good enough to feed a shower , but they have a built in means to pressure watch the screen numerous times an hour.
      A micron screen fine enough to feed a shower , such as the RDF has , would clog too easily. It would be quite an effort to keep clean. A screen wash system would be hard to implement .
      A mechanical filter like a S&G filter or even a static bed K1 filter has a lot of surface area , enough to filter to a fine enough level to feed a shower , and that maximum surface area will do the job without clogging , and not need cleaning as often as the micron screen .

    9. #29
      pondfishguy is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by catfish whiskers View Post
      Apology accepted , and I had no intension to insult . I was being Frank , but not to hurt any feelings , but rather to be helpful.
      Here’s why I think that a sieve above a shower will not work properly.
      A true sieve uses a wedgewire screen that is almost self cleaning and virtually clog free. They are typically 250 to 300 microns , and any finer micron than that will clog too easily.
      A shower filter needs the cleanest water possible , not just for health of the bacteria that lives in the shower media. , but also because typical shower media is hard to clean without destroying the media Itself , as well as the destroying the bacteria.
      Micron screens in RDF filters are usually around 50 microns , that’s good enough to feed a shower , but they have a built in means to pressure watch the screen numerous times an hour.
      A micron screen fine enough to feed a shower , such as the RDF has , would clog too easily. It would be quite an effort to keep clean. A screen wash system would be hard to implement .
      A mechanical filter like a S&G filter or even a static bed K1 filter has a lot of surface area , enough to filter to a fine enough level to feed a shower , and that maximum surface area will do the job without clogging , and not need cleaning as often as the micron screen .
      I agree 100% (maybe 99) with the info above. I have done extensive testing with nylon, polyester and wire mesh screening from 10-800 micron in every size readily available. Anything below 200 micron will rapidly plug due to biofilm growth. 400 micron rarely plugs if there is sufficient flow to "wash" the screen and move the debris to a collection point. I've used 400 micron filter socks and they have gone months without cleaning. Keep in mind they don't filter out the fish poop, mostly sand, snails, string algae, leaves, etc,

      The only additional alternative I know to get the water below 100 micron solids is filter matting, which if you feed a lot is an absolute pain to constantly clean. I'm a big fan of the SG filters and have built many ranging from 55-200 gallons.

    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by Asagibottom View Post
      Here is my plan, using the above pictured bins (they arrived today, finally) for the sieve/bakki shower.

      It would be pump fed from my skimmer (after talking to Catfish whiskers, I think this would be my best approach at this point), a 3100GPH submersible pump - Alpine Cyclone.

      Attachment 600200
      What type of sieve material and micron are using asagibottom?
      My suggestion is make the sieve as big as possible to take up qt least 80% of the bin. With 3100gph, it might over power your sieve and constant overflow...
      I do rinse my sieve my sieve once in the morning before I went to work and once at night when I got home when I was working.
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Last edited by Nguyen365; 04-07-2020 at 11:23 AM.

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