Let's see who's ready.

[spkennyva]

Thanks Sean. What size do you feed koi fry during the very early days.

Hi Matt,

I start with the smallest size (GP1) for about a week, then progress up to GP4. I do 1/2 existing size & 1/2 new size at the transition points for a couple of days. After I finish GP4, I go with a different type of food.

[Orlando]

Good evening folks, now I know why farms have so many people during the culling process. Having added that second male and seeing so many unfertilized eggs one would have thought the numbers would be about average well I started this morning around 8am and quit around 7pm had to stop draining water and there's 6" of water left in the tank I stopped counting at 12k fry have to help a friend in the morning with a kitchen sink faucet and resume the process once I get back home, will post some pictures tomorrow

[Matt24]

Wow that's a lot! Like a marathon ... no, more like a triathlon ... followed by another triathlon the next day! I admire your stamina.

I decided I couldn't hang with that. The last few times I've had a batch of fry, I've just gone through a few hundred at a time, many times over several weeks. But I'm sure I lose a lot through sibling predation that way.

[Orlando]

Wow that's a lot! Like a marathon ... no, more like a triathlon ... followed by another triathlon the next day! I admire your stamina.

I decided I couldn't hang with that. The last few times I've had a batch of fry, I've just gone through a few hundred at a time, many times over several weeks. But I'm sure I lose a lot through sibling predation that way.

Good morning, going to help a friend early but should be at it in a couple of hours

[spkennyva]

Good luck with this initial cull. Are you counting keepers and rejects, or just making selections? I’m curious about what percentage were kept, as well as the actual number.

[Orlando]

Good luck with this initial cull. Are you counting keepers and rejects, or just making selections? I’m curious about what percentage were kept, as well as the actual number.

Good morning Sean, just like Showa Shiro Utsuri the first cull is the most simple one because you only keep the Black fry and discard everything else, I know some people in the area that keep salt water tanks and these 2wk old fry make excellent feeders for their fish. As far as how many Black fry I kept their numbers are always low in this case any where from 150 to 200.

[spkennyva]

Wow, from over 12K to about 200. That must have been exhausting!!

[Orlando]

Wow, from over 12K to about 200. That must have been exhausting!!

The reason I was counting the fry on Saturday I wanted to compare numbers from two previous spawns using one male versus two male's. Sunday morning it hit me while I was replacing a kitchen faucet, just count the black one's and that's the direction I took but by the looks I bet there were over 20k fry. Now I understand why they breed so many pairs during the season, the ratio is very low.

[Matt24]

So am I figuring this right? The dark fry were only a couple of percent of the total, or maybe not even that many?

The 6 times I bred showa, I checked the percentages of dark fry and got between 8% and 40% dark fry, but it was usually between 20% and 35%.

I have heard of as high as 50% or as low as 1%. In fact, one local koi dealer bred showa and was so frustrated because he said every one of them came out solid orange.

[Matt24]

So am I figuring this right? The dark fry were only a couple of percent of the total, or maybe not even that many?

The 6 times I bred showa, I checked the percentages of dark fry and got between 8% and 40% dark fry, but it was usually between 20% and 35%.

I have heard of as high as 50% or as low as 1%. In fact, one local koi dealer bred showa and was so frustrated because he said every one of them came out solid orange.

Oh wait, maybe you were also culling some dark ones that were deformed? So the percentage dark may have been higher?

[Orlando]

Oh wait, maybe you were also culling some dark ones that were deformed? So the percentage dark may have been higher?

Good morning Matt, I don't think anyone can control the percentages of black vrs white ones. At this stage I believe it's impossible to cull for deformities. So it is what it is, now my pickle for next week is; do I attempt to give my Goshiki an opportunity or do I attempt the Ochiba.

[Matt24]

...I don't think anyone can control the percentages of black vrs white ones. ...

That would be a good trick if you could figure out that one. I've seen very large differences in the percentage of dark fry, even when spawning the same oyagoi from one year to the next. And I've read of others saying the same thing.

[spkennyva]

Good morning Matt, I don't think anyone can control the percentages of black vrs white ones. At this stage I believe it's impossible to cull for deformities. So it is what it is, now my pickle for next week is; do I attempt to give my Goshiki an opportunity or do I attempt the Ochiba.

My vote is Ochiba Of course I'm not the one culling and managing 40,000 fry.

Thanks for keeping us updated on your progress. I'm considering pairing up a few groups, but it will be a couple of weeks before that happens.

[Orlando]

My vote is Ochiba Of course I'm not the one culling and managing 40,000 fry.

Thanks for keeping us updated on your progress. I'm considering pairing up a few groups, but it will be a couple of weeks before that happens.

Good morning Sean, my heart is also with the Ochiba but my work with Goshiki has been running now since 2011 and I believe they are ready so I have to satisfy my curiosity but having said that they were in the tank last night and nothing happened I'm doing somethings to the water to see if they start during the day if they don't the Ochibas might get a chance tonight. Here's some information that even though isn't related to spawning is quite relevant to the development of the fry that were hatched last month, I remember mentioning that I switched koi food brands due to seeing some changes on the brand I been using for the last seven year's. Am going to re-post a picture that I posted last year around this same date and am going too post a picture of this year's fry they are a day or two from being 30 day's old, remember am just sharing my experience here.
These are at the 30 day mark from the 2022 spawn.
These are just shy of 30 days by a day or two on Kenzen 49/9/9 that's been pulverized to feed the fry, they are double and triple in size in some samples.

[spkennyva]

Orlando,


Thanks for the update! Great growth on the fry - really impressive!! I know you have invested a great amount of effort in your Goshiki, and really appreciate the importance that they have to you!! Whatever you do, we'll be here learning a taking notes. Best of luck in whatever path you take.

BTW, Thank you for keeping this forum active and informative!!

[Orlando]

Sean life threw me some lemons this morning when I stepped outside to see no spawn as the day went on I got to thinking, could It be a male? Bear in mind I've checked this koi atleast 3 or 4 times but I've never gotten it to produce milt but the vent says female and I've mentioned on this thread before that the body and pectoral fins tell me male so Goshiki teach me another lesson back in 2020 one of my Goshiki that I had pegged for a male turned out to be a female we'll this time one I was sure was a female turned out it's a male, a couple of hour's ago I decided to place my female kohaku in the spawning tank and within a half hour the Goshiki was hitting the female kohaku at that point I said she stays in the tank tonight but that's when the opportunity to make lemonade came to mind because kohaku had to do with producing ochibas so they are compatible to be crossed together so in came the male ginrin Ochiba. These koi teach me something new every day I guess stay humble and hope that things turn out OK we will see in the morning.

[spkennyva]

I feel your pain. I've got 5 Kawakami Goshiki (3 of which are breeding age) and I'm only certain of the sex of one of these.

Look forward to hearing some good news from you tomorrow.

[Orlando]

Well, after looking like things were going in the correct direction yesterday evening went out this morning to find nothing happened dropped the water about 4" and started to slowly trickle water back in the tank to see if they would start but nothing so I removed the kohaku waited about an hour and brought in the Ochiba female and the plan is to leave her with the two male's till tomorrow, hence the title of this thread, Let's see who's ready.

[Koigrl]

Hi, Orlando, congrats on being KPOTY. You sure deserve it.
So don't count me as ready and kudos to alla ya'll who are breeding. The weather has been bizarre from north to south, east to west and that's week by week. Today started at 29F now 49F going to go up and down based on I do not know what. Yesterday, fish came to feed in the big half million gal pond but not the others. I see no interest in anyone doing splashy splashy and that's okay with me. This year marks 15 yrs with my project and I think I've gone as far as I can with it. When things defrost i'll post pix. Great to see your posts, Orlando.

[Angie Jones]

I just read this entire thread today. Thank you for three years of documenting your expertise raising fry, what a gift to the koi community. I have a few questions if you don't mind answering. #1: Do you use an anti-fungal on your eggs after you remove the parents? #2: Do you raise the fry in the same tank they were spawned in or do you move them to a different tank to hatch? 3: I saw the posts where you built your sponge filters. What is the square sponge material? Is it something commercially available? Do you have an air stone at the bottom of the airline that goes through the hole in the top of the 45 degree elbow? Thanks again for a great thread!