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  • Results 1 to 18 of 18

    Thread: First timer dealing with injury

    1. #1
      mjimenez is online now Junior Member
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      First timer dealing with injury

      Hi all,
      I'm new to the forum. I'm a rookie koi keeper that's been doing it for about a year or so. Today I noticed that my big girl had some scale damage and a prolapsed vent. I'm not sure if the two are related, but i just noticed it today when i was feeding. Any advice from anyone on how i should deal with this? I've never dealt with any sickness or injuries before. Thank you in advance. My water quality seems fine, i just tested and nothing looks out of the ordinary.
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    2. #2
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      It would appear that there is one damaged scale. I would leave it alone. If you want to treat, use a Q-Tip and dip it in peroxide and rub over and under the scale, but I don't think that that is necessary, unless things get worse.

      For future reference, we do like to see numbers for the water quality tests. "Fine" or "Nothing looks out of the ordinary" doesn't tell us much. Because so many issues are caused by water quality issues, or aggravated by less than perfect water quality, we like to see what the actual numbers are. The healing is often tied to the quality of the water. So in the future, please furnish ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH, temperature, and gallons.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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      Richard

    3. #3
      mjimenez is online now Junior Member
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      Ok I will! Rookie mistake! Thank you so much! I ordered some Proform-C and some Aqua Prazi just in case i need it in the future from reading other posts!

    4. #4
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      Unless I am seeing signs of distress in the fish, such as flashing, isolation, fins clamped, breaching, piping, or other non-normal activity, I would not do a treatment for parasites. It is always a good idea to have those treatments on hand as the time from order to arrival and treatment can seem like forever. Store the Proform-C at or near room temperature, rather than outdoors in hot or cold temperatures.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    5. #5
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      Prolapsed vent?

      Hey all, I was wondering if anyone could tell me if this is concern for alarm? This is the same Showa that had some scale injury.





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    6. #6
      montwila's Avatar
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      I believe the San Diego koi show is this weekend. You should join the koi club and they can help answer some of your questions.

      The other thing is you are starting two threads asking questions about the same fish. As Rich mentions about the water parameters, painting the whole picture is important to us. So any sick fish you are having should be in a single thread. Even people with multiple ponds often have similar problems in different pond systems as diseases can travel from one pond to another or aquarium for that matter.

      About your fish: The one scale is obvious and has algae growing on it. This usually indicates that that scale is dead or possibly dying and may need to be removed. It may or may not grow back. Forward of this scale there appears to me to be three more scales that are losing color or may have damage to them. All four scales are close enough that it could be the result of a traumatic injury and need to be watched closely.

      Being in San Diego, i am sure your water is much warmer than most of the country right now. Has there been any spawning activity in your pond yet this Spring? Even if you have not seen any, has there been any foam or more than usual foam floating on the surface of the pond? I am wondering if the trauma may have been from spawning activity and possibly the vent issue could be tied to this.

      Again i would encourage you to join your local koi club (it is a good one) and seek help if you chose to try and treat this fish. It may have more going on with it than a "newbie" might be able to handle. You also need to get a koi show bowl large enough for your fish. Taking photo's and treating them in the net is very stressful for them and might rub their slime coat off on the opposite side. This could lead to more issues.

    7. #7
      montwila's Avatar
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      You should probably ask the mods. to delete this thread. Multiple threads on the same fish or ponds gets confusing.

      Again, please get a bowl or tank. Keeping the fish in a net while photographing or treating it may cause further harm to the fish.

    8. #8
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      sorry

    9. #9
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      No worries... let me see if I can combine this thread with the other...

      Edit:
      All done.
      --Steve


      “First in excellence
      frist in pride"
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    10. #10
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      First timer dealing with injury

      Quote Originally Posted by montwila View Post
      I believe the San Diego koi show is this weekend. You should join the koi club and they can help answer some of your questions.

      The other thing is you are starting two threads asking questions about the same fish. As Rich mentions about the water parameters, painting the whole picture is important to us. So any sick fish you are having should be in a single thread. Even people with multiple ponds often have similar problems in different pond systems as diseases can travel from one pond to another or aquarium for that matter.

      About your fish: The one scale is obvious and has algae growing on it. This usually indicates that that scale is dead or possibly dying and may need to be removed. It may or may not grow back. Forward of this scale there appears to me to be three more scales that are losing color or may have damage to them. All four scales are close enough that it could be the result of a traumatic injury and need to be watched closely.

      Being in San Diego, i am sure your water is much warmer than most of the country right now. Has there been any spawning activity in your pond yet this Spring? Even if you have not seen any, has there been any foam or more than usual foam floating on the surface of the pond? I am wondering if the trauma may have been from spawning activity and possibly the vent issue could be tied to this.

      Again i would encourage you to join your local koi club (it is a good one) and seek help if you chose to try and treat this fish. It may have more going on with it than a "newbie" might be able to handle. You also need to get a koi show bowl large enough for your fish. Taking photo's and treating them in the net is very stressful for them and might rub their slime coat off on the opposite side. This could lead to more issues.
      Thank you for the info. I’m keeping an eye on her now. I also ordered a showing bowl (thanks for that as well). There is a bit of foam on the water’s surface which I just noticed after looking. Water parameters are as follows using test strips 3 times:

      Ammonia 0
      GH 180
      KH 40
      PH 7
      NO3 20
      NO2 0


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    11. #11
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      If this is an outdoor pond with a KH of 40 and a pH of 7, I would look at getting a pH reading as close to dawn as possible and another late afternoon. The KH and pH are quite low and may lead to unstable pH. See https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...ns-And-Newbies, https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...ns-and-Newbies, and https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...nd-GH-in-Depth for in-depth understanding of the pH, KH, GH, and the interaction of them. A swing of much more than 0.2 on the pH scale can be stressful, leading to health issues. We don't believe the strip type tests are all that accurate as moisture and age will degrade them quickly. A better option is API Freshwater Master Test KIT with added API KH Test Kit.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    12. #12
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      Ok will do!

    13. #13
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      Hey all, so i did my early morning water testing (with strips still, going to order the API master test kit today) and i found the PH at 6.5 and the KH at a little darker than 40. Yesterday afternoon i added 1.5 cups of baking soda to my pond that is 1650g. I will retest tomorrow morning and show my findings. I will also be attending the San Diego Koi Club Show in Del Mar this weekend with my family. Thank you for putting up with me. I've been an avid saltwater reefer for quite a few years, i just need to apply my water chemistry knowledge to freshwater My big Dainichi Showa has not shown any WORSE progress in the past couple days (no redness around the damaged scales) and is still swimming with the group and eating. I did notice some of the smaller koi swimming right below her sometimes with their head almost touching or rubbing against her protruding vent, so maybe that particular issue isnt an issue and is just nature doing nature things

    14. #14
      montwila's Avatar
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      Thanks Steve for combining the threads.

      Good call Rich on the KH.

      It will be interesting if the drop test will duplicate the same results. In the mean time: Koi usually do not "go sniffing around" each other personnel areas like you might see in dogs. Keep an eye on this. Sometimes small fish just swim under larger ones (especially if she is their matriarch). Then again I have seen smaller koi picking at wounds of their tank mates if there is an infection going on. Time will tell. Enjoy the SD Koi show. They have some wonderful fish, or so I have seen in pictures. I personally have never made it to that show.

      Ed Broomfield is going to staff the K.O.I. booth there. He is a CKK and may have a few ideas about your fish. More important he can help you to acquire information that can help you with diagnosing your fish. This would be in addition to joining the San Diego koi club for local help to you. You can tell him I sent you to check out the booth.

      I am hoping at this time it was a spawning injury and that she might heal herself as the Summer goes on.

    15. #15
      mjimenez is online now Junior Member
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      Hey all! So much has happened since my first post, im thankful for all the help and support of this forum. I attended the San Diego Koi Show, and came back with 3 more koi Met up with Ed Broomfield and talked with him for about 20 mins. Joined K.O.I. after we got done talking. All my drop style test kits came in and after a few days of adding baking soda (went to costco after i used up my 2nd little box and got the giant bag) The Showa is still doing the same, hasnt gotten any worse. I did notice the fish are way more active after i stabilized the water (maybe its the placebo effect in my mind)

      My parameters as of right now:

      Temp 60 degrees
      PH 7.5
      KH 125.3 ppm
      Nitrite 0 ppm
      Nitrate between 5-10 ppm
      Ammonia 0 ppm

      Getting ready to do a water change to lower the nitrate. Will test in the AM and in the PM tomorrow to see what the results look like.

    16. #16
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      Not sure which of the three pH tests you used. There is one called wide range pH which is really only good for telling you which test kit is the best to use, pH or high range pH (to big a spread top to bottom). With the KH that you have, I suspect you should have been using the high range test kit, but it is only good for tests above 7.5, where as the pH test kit is only good up to about 7.6.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    17. #17
      mjimenez is online now Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      Not sure which of the three pH tests you used. There is one called wide range pH which is really only good for telling you which test kit is the best to use, pH or high range pH (to big a spread top to bottom). With the KH that you have, I suspect you should have been using the high range test kit, but it is only good for tests above 7.5, where as the pH test kit is only good up to about 7.6.
      I used the wide range PH test that came with the pond master kit.


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      I wouldn't worry too much about this little bit of nitrate, I always like to see some..

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