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  • Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567
    Results 121 to 135 of 135

    Thread: Tancho Sanke Issues

    1. #121
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      It is fine not to feed medicated food at this point but I'm concerned she doesn't seem to be tolerating food without regressing. She needs to be able to eat.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    2. #122
      berkokid is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn View Post
      It is fine not to feed medicated food at this point but I'm concerned she doesn't seem to be tolerating food without regressing. She needs to be able to eat.
      That’s sort of just a theory I had, I’m not convinced I have the fact base to support it.
      - Jonathan
      - aka "Berko"

    3. #123
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      Quote Originally Posted by berkokid View Post
      Yeah I donít feed her while on anti-biotics. It was once she was off and looked great. But Iíve sort of talked myself out of that being possible since she came so sick.
      Even after antibiotics consider not feeding her. If the premise was that she is a euthanasia case i.e. has irreversible kidney damage then there is a good chance she could also have liver and intestinal damage ie. necrosis. I would think that a smart koi recovering from 'pre-euthanasia' will naturally decide when to start eating and only start by sucking easily digestible natural food that's developed on the tank walls (when the water is chemical free). Internal necrotic tissues will take several weeks to clear. All the best and great effort!
      Last edited by KoiRun; 4 Weeks Ago at 01:23 AM.
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    4. #124
      berkokid is offline Senior Member
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      thanks for the advice. her belly is still swollen this morning after the 4th shot last night. It was also the end of the three days of Oxo in the tank, so I did a massive water change as well. So the tank is relatively free of meds at this point.

      To top it off - a heron found the pond. Good bye Karashi.

      This hobby can test one's mettle.
      - Jonathan
      - aka "Berko"

    5. #125
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      It can, indeed. Sorry about the heron.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    6. #126
      berkokid is offline Senior Member
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      So - today is the fifth and final shot.

      I've been working with this fish so long I'm not 100% convinced I'm going to be able to interpret whether or not her conformation is "normal" .... she's gone through so many stages and shapes / sizes / colors.

      Any suggestions on how to approach making a decision?
      - Jonathan
      - aka "Berko"

    7. #127
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      Quote Originally Posted by berkokid View Post
      So - today is the fifth and final shot.

      I've been working with this fish so long I'm not 100% convinced I'm going to be able to interpret whether or not her conformation is "normal" .... she's gone through so many stages and shapes / sizes / colors.

      Any suggestions on how to approach making a decision?
      You won’t know for a while. At some point you just have to leave it alone and wait. It can take a month, or two, for it to find its normal.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    8. #128
      berkokid is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      You won’t know for a while. At some point you just have to leave it alone and wait. It can take a month, or two, for it to find its normal.
      got it. good advice. given 5th shot just happened, at this point seems like the thing to do is to keep high quality water, begin feeding maybe tomorrow, and just see what happens.
      - Jonathan
      - aka "Berko"

    9. #129
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      Quote Originally Posted by berkokid View Post
      got it. good advice. given 5th shot just happened, at this point seems like the thing to do is to keep high quality water, begin feeding maybe tomorrow, and just see what happens.
      Nishikigoi21 posted this in another thread just recently. If I can bring your attention what I highlighted below. This maybe taken in another context here but there may be a scientific explanation to this and it is in the theory of autophagy. It is that is the when cells are starved genetic codes are expressed to create specific lysosomes. These lysosomes will scavenge it's own cellular parts that is not needed for survival and burn it for energy. In extreme starvation it would then look for protein in muscles but the hypothesis is that it will also look for cancer cells, necrotic cells, tumours etc. I least this is what I understand of it. Hope this helps.

      Quote Originally Posted by nishikigoi21 View Post
      For the sake of avoiding argument, I probably won't be replying to this thread but thought I'd share...

      I was reading through an old Japanese ZNA magazine and according to an article, it said that fasting Koi over the winter is a necessity, and will make them healthier & their internal organs stronger. This is because Koi are supposed to experience the four seasons in a year.

      A lot of hobbyists feel bad about not feeding their Koi when they're active & appear hungry but it's almost impossible to starve a cold water fish to death.
      In the same article it said that there was a case of a highly prized Koi that got an internal bacterial infection and it was fasted for over a year! Later this Koi won Grand Champion at the All Japan Koi Show.

      Not feeding for a week or two wouldn't be considered a fast for Koi...that's more like a break lol.

      Think of it like this. If you shut off your pump throughout the winter VS running it all year long...which do you think will last longer?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autophagy

      Here is a youtuber with a koi named Daisy. Daisy was at the point of dropsy. After several chemical treatments she was able to obtain antibiotic. After several weeks into all her treatments and finally with antibiotics she looked all well and eating. This is very surprising as it is very rare from what I heard that dropsy can be cured. Then a few weeks later the dropsy reoccured. That was when a vet agreed it's time to euthanize her. Learning from this, if I would successfully treated a koi with internal bacterial infection/dropsy, I would not feed her for several months.

      Its an interesting saga of Daisy (interesting to me anyways). Here are a links to some of his videos:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxHOAzCE3Nc&t=252s
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhAglFkd5ws&t=15s
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CtK7lPQJFY
      Last edited by KoiRun; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:15 AM.
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin

      KoiRun on YouTube, latest video:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qit1BjDQc9Y&t=7s



    10. #130
      berkokid is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      Nishikigoi21 posted this in another thread just recently. If I can bring your attention what I highlighted below. This maybe taken in another context here but there may be a scientific explanation to this and it is in the theory of autophagy. It is that is the when cells are starved genetic codes are expressed to create specific lysosomes. These lysosomes will scavenge it's own cellular parts that is not needed for survival and burn it for energy. In extreme starvation it would then look for protein in muscles but the hypothesis is that it will also look for cancer cells, necrotic cells, tumours etc. I least this is what I understand of it. Hope this helps.



      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autophagy

      Here is a youtuber with a koi named Daisy. Daisy was at the point of dropsy. After several chemical treatments she was able to obtain antibiotic. After several weeks into all her treatments and finally with antibiotics she looked all well and eating. This is very surprising as it is very rare from what I heard that dropsy can be cured. Then a few weeks later the dropsy reoccured. That was when a vet agreed it's time to euthanize her. Learning from this, if I would successfully treated a koi with internal bacterial infection/dropsy, I would not feed her for several months.

      Its an interesting saga of Daisy (interesting to me anyways). Here are a links to some of his videos:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxHOAzCE3Nc&t=252s
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhAglFkd5ws&t=15s
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CtK7lPQJFY
      Thanks for cross posting and copying all this information in here. Wow, lots to think through. Wow.
      - Jonathan
      - aka "Berko"

    11. #131
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      Fasting during the coolest months seems prudent with healthy koi. They are fed robustly pre winter fasting. I always had good luck with it.
      I've long been an advocate for the four season belief but extrapolating that it resolves tumors and heals organs that were likely compromised by severe parasitic and/or bacterial damage to me is a stretch. This koi will be heading into the warmest months facing months of fasting. I hope it works but it really is a different situation entirely from what is done with regularity in Japan.

      Berko, you can give it a try. You don't have a lot to lose but I'm dubious that fasting will actually be the thing that heals this koi should she make it. Your care has been exceptional and you've given her every chance.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    12. #132
      berkokid is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn View Post
      Fasting during the coolest months seems prudent with healthy koi. They are fed robustly pre winter fasting. I always had good luck with it.
      I've long been an advocate for the four season belief but extrapolating that it resolves tumors and heals organs that were likely compromised by severe parasitic and/or bacterial damage to me is a stretch. This koi will be heading into the warmest months facing months of fasting. I hope it works but it really is a different situation entirely from what is done with regularity in Japan.

      Berko, you can give it a try. You don't have a lot to lose but I'm dubious that fasting will actually be the thing that heals this koi should she make it. Your care has been exceptional and you've given her every chance.
      I haven't fed the koi in nearly two weeks. There is no redness / purpleness appearing on her underside. She is still swollen, and I think now that it's been more than a week since the fifth shot of baytril, her eyes are starting to bulge a bit more.

      The vet is suggesting to try a different anti-biotic ... here is how she looks

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      Last edited by berkokid; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:08 PM.
      - Jonathan
      - aka "Berko"

    13. #133
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      That could be what is needed. In cases where we used baytril and it did not work, we would shift to amikacin and often got good results. Amikacin is looked down on by some since it sometimes hammers the kidneys, but if the fish is not going to make it without, does it matter if the treatment kills the fish.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    14. #134
      berkokid is offline Senior Member
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      That’s exactly what my vet said. She’s not psyched about Amakin because there’s clearly kidney distress at this point given the swelling.

      BTW: Just to ask the question, is there any chance she’s egg bound?
      - Jonathan
      - aka "Berko"

    15. #135
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      We are rapidly approaching breeding season. Here, I expected breeding to occur with the full moon of May or June, though it occurred as early as April and as late as July. So she may be nearing spawning, but I can't tell because of the history.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

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