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    Results 21 to 40 of 41

    Thread: Help! Why are my Koi dying?

    1. #21
      koi4u2c is offline Senior Member
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      That lighter colored fish in post #7 looks extremely thin. Is it just the angle of the picture, or is it that thin?
      Nancy



    2. #22
      hoveringuy is offline Junior Member
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      My KH is up considerably and my pH is around 7.8-8 now. My Koi one in grief is still floating awkwardly on the surface, although I see more strength returning to respiration and fin movement.

      My open questions after reading all the resources are, was the pH crash related to the cold snap and then sudden warmup? I don't have any plants or even that much algae.

      Were my fish stricken by the change in pH, or by Ammonia? My understanding is that cold water with pH of 7.0 has a higher allowable for ammonia. If my bio shutdown because of the cold, how quickly does Ammonia accumulate?

    3. #23
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      A lot of your queries can be addressed by documenting what your results are when you test your water going forward. Test your source water, as well.

      Nitrification slows a lot in colder water and I'm not sure your water rose into the zone it would be that much more active. IOW, I find it very doubtful this caused the crash. It's impossible to know for sure as we don't have enough information before the crash and not ideal information after it. I agree with getting drop test kits as they are much more accurate.

      If I were to guess, I would say that you were already low in KH and the heavy rains took you into the crash zone. This means there was no buffering capacity to keep the pH stable. Koi like stable.
      If, by chance, you saw it was warmer and fed them, this would have contributed to the problem.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    4. #24
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by hoveringuy View Post
      My KH is up considerably and my pH is around 7.8-8 now. My Koi one in grief is still floating awkwardly on the surface, although I see more strength returning to respiration and fin movement.

      My open questions after reading all the resources are, was the pH crash related to the cold snap and then sudden warmup? I don't have any plants or even that much algae.

      Were my fish stricken by the change in pH, or by Ammonia? My understanding is that cold water with pH of 7.0 has a higher allowable for ammonia. If my bio shutdown because of the cold, how quickly does Ammonia accumulate?
      I do not know if warmer temps is the cause to your issue. But I would guess based on what you have posted, That it is a contributor to the issue but not the direct cause. Here is a short and sweet article that may help answer your question.

      http://www.koihealth.info/understanding-ph.html

      Your low kh,rain water, 2 year old koi so probable large fish growth? temp fluctuations, possible feedings when temps went up? Poor water quality,small pond etc etc. Could have added up to a crash. Just a guess on my part.

      I am also guessing that if the gills were dark red as posted. It was the ph shift that got them. Asidosis
      Last edited by kdh; 01-26-2020 at 11:59 AM.

    5. #25
      hoveringuy is offline Junior Member
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      I don't feed them until early March.

      The gills looked just like this photo..

      Name:  gills.JPG
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    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by hoveringuy View Post
      I don't feed them until early March.

      The gills looked just like this photo..

      Name:  gills.JPG
Views: 149
Size:  39.3 KB
      Really need to see your kois gills. The causes of a ph crash I posted do not have to be (all) of the above. How much have your koi grown?
      Last edited by kdh; 01-26-2020 at 01:18 PM.

    7. #27
      hoveringuy is offline Junior Member
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      He's grown from 4 to 9 inches over the last year.

      He appears to be making more of an effort to move his fins and hasn't gotten worse. Slowly better...

      Name:  IMG_20200126_134136.jpg
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    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by hoveringuy View Post
      He's grown from 4 to 9 inches over the last year.

      He appears to be making more of an effort to move his fins and hasn't gotten worse. Slowly better...

      Name:  IMG_20200126_134136.jpg
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      How many koi do you have? And have they all doubled in size from last year?

    9. #29
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      I had 12 at the beginning of the summer, I re-homed 3 in the Fall to reduce the load.

      Some of them are still 5" gold fish.

      I had a out 60-70 total inches in 1000gal.

    10. #30
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      Can a PH crash happen even winter (cold/cool water)? OP was not even feeding.
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin

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    11. #31
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      Sure, as a pH crash is simply that there is not enough alkalinity to keep the pH stable.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    12. #32
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      We had tons of rain in January. One thing I've learned is that clean rain is not neutral, but is naturally acidic due to absorption of atmospheric CO2 which becomes carbonic acid.

      I've been at 8-9 drops of KH since then and my one sick fish that didn't die has recovered. He was floating on the surface, sideways, breathing weekly 4 days ago. The breathing slowly got stronger, response to stimulous increased, fin movement returned, and yesterday he finally swam down to rejoin the few that were never stricken.
      Last edited by hoveringuy; 01-29-2020 at 10:59 AM.

    13. #33
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      It's a rotten lesson to have to learn. We all think of rain water is being so wonderfully pure but it brings its own problems.

      I'm glad you were able to save the that one and the others are doing well. Thank you for the update.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    14. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by hoveringuy View Post
      We had tons of rain in January. One thing I've learned is that clean rain is not neutral, but is naturally acidic due to absorption of atmospheric CO2 which becomes carbonic acid.

      I've been at 8-9 drops of KH since then and my one sick fish that didn't die has recovered. He was floating on the surface, sideways, breathing weekly 4 days ago. The breathing slowly got stronger, response to stimulous increased, fin movement returned, and yesterday he finally swam down to rejoin the few that were never stricken.
      That's good news!

      What is the KH/PH of your tap water using the drop test?
      Last edited by KoiRun; 01-29-2020 at 09:37 PM.
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin

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    15. #35
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      Seattle tap water KH: even when I test at 20ml it hard to tell, so it's very low. I'll guess 3/4 drop per 10ml, or 12-15ppm. Seattle has some of the softest water in the Country.

    16. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by hoveringuy View Post
      Seattle tap water KH: even when I test at 20ml it hard to tell, so it's very low. I'll guess 3/4 drop per 10ml, or 12-15ppm. Seattle has some of the softest water in the Country.
      It does sound very much like you've had a ph crash. I believe ICU2 (in your area) regularly adds baking soda to up his KH.
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin

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    17. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by hoveringuy View Post
      Seattle tap water KH: even when I test at 20ml it hard to tell, so it's very low. I'll guess 3/4 drop per 10ml, or 12-15ppm. Seattle has some of the softest water in the Country.
      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      It does sound very much like you've had a ph crash. I believe ICU2 (in your area) regularly adds baking soda to up his KH.
      I know my well water is the same, maybe 2 drops.
      I only add baking soda if I want to raise it, but honestly I've really not needed to. Hoveringuy can attest that
      it's been raining here for what seems like forever. I hadn't tested my water for a long time so I just did and
      pH is 8.0, kH is 2 drops. I change out about 30 gallons every 5 hours 24/7 so maybe that's why it works.
      --Steve


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    18. #38
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      Steve, I think you also have a fantastic ratio of gallons to fish. Most don't have your restraint.
      I agree that your flow through is helping as it's constantly offsetting what is being consumed. If you did not have a constant influx of 20ppm water and had a higher stocking rate, you'd need to keep a closer eye on the KH level.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    19. #39
      icu2's Avatar
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      Totally agree.
      --Steve


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    20. #40
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      I guess that rain water is a problem only when it is polluted. I have been using rain water from our house roof during the last 2 years since I started my pond hobby, and I have not noticed any problem for the fish that can be associated with the rain water. The pH varied between 6.5-7.0, but over a very long period of time.

      (Most of my koi died due to my improper handling of them for over-wintering outside in the pond last winter)

      Of course I must say that I have not been using biofilter but letting the green water algae take care of the fish waste products. And I must also confess that my fish were happier with the pea soup than my wife did: She hated it!

      This summer I will have to kill off the green water algae due to the order from my wife. To use biofilter instead of green water algae I must increase the pH with baking soda.

      What I want to say is that theoretically the acidity of unpolluted rain water should not be a problem, as this acidity is caused by carbonic acid which is a weak acid that cannot hurt fish in the normal concentration range. But polluted acidic rain water is contaminated with the strong acids nitric acid and sulfuric acid, and those can really harm the fish. But those can be remedied by adding baking soda, as they are not poisonous.

      Of cause, the real problem is that the acidity caused by the strong acids will eventually also increase amount of dissolved heavy metal ions, and these are poisonous for fish.
      Last edited by SimonW; 02-08-2020 at 05:46 AM.

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