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  • Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
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    Thread: How much ammonia do fish produce without food?

    1. #61
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      'Bog filter' only because it is never cleaned and because within its deeper passages or pores lies anaerobic or microaerophilic conditions where denitrification can take place. I've always wondered why many think showers are so great (I've never had one) now I think I know why.
      Activated charcoal's adsorptive capacity lasts only a few months. All along charcoal also functions as any other type media that bacteria can attach to, but different in that it has an incredible amount of surface area.


      This video explains how activated charcoal is used to denitrify..
      Interesting, any info on zeolite bed filters and using bacteria to continously regenerate?
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    2. #62
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      No actual measurements but I'm estimating at 3" - 4" in width of each piece on average.
      Five years without cleaning is wonderful. Looks like an excellent size combination.
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    3. #63
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      Quote Originally Posted by SimonW View Post
      Hello friends:

      Thank you all for your inputs! But I am a little bit confused. Maybe I should put it in this way:

      Please compare ammonia production in these 2 situations:

      1) Koi are fed optimally (no uneaten food), I guess 1% av body weight per day when the water temperature is 72 F (optimal right? Mine is 65 F so a little bit less),

      2) Koi are not fed for several weeks at the same temperature

      Will koi in situation 2) still produce 60-70% av ammonia as they do in situation 1)?

      I donīt mind how the ammonia is released into the water, though I know mostly through the gills. My intention is to know how much less nitrite/nitrate it will ultimately be produced if I feed them less or not at all.
      No, lack of food metabolism will slow and less ammonia will be excreted through the gills. Total ammonia will be proportional (nonlinear) to the amount of food.
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      Last edited by batman; 1 Week Ago at 12:49 PM.
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    4. #64
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      Quote Originally Posted by batman View Post
      Great photo Steve. Definitely shows all the pores are clogged and helps support the denitrification theory many have of feather rock. As for the media clogging between pieces absolutely not.

      Looks lika a good choice on size. How big are the chunks?
      Roddy Conrad uses boulder size feather rocks but in a trickle tower application. Zero nitrates I believe.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...ance-practices
      Last edited by KoiRun; 1 Week Ago at 12:36 AM. Reason: added feather
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    5. #65
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      Quote Originally Posted by batman View Post
      Interesting, any info on zeolite bed filters and using bacteria to continously regenerate?
      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      'Bog filter' only because it is never cleaned and because within its deeper passages or pores lies anaerobic or microaerophilic conditions where denitrification can take place. I've always wondered why many think showers are so great (I've never had one) now I think I know why.
      Activated charcoal's adsorptive capacity lasts only a few months. All along charcoal also functions as any other type media that bacteria can attach to, but different in that it has an incredible amount of surface area.


      This video explains how activated charcoal is used to denitrify..

      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      Roddy Conrad uses boulder size rocks but in a trickle tower application. Zero nitrates I believe.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...ance-practices
      I'm at a total loss as to any correlation you're making between feather rock and other medias here.

      I'll just go on record in saying that the media that has worked well for me in a shower with no
      maintenance is feather rock. It's stayed very clean and required me to do nothing to it going into
      it's 9th year in operation. If you want to make that into a negative thing, that's your call. I've not
      experienced any of the negatives you suggest, but only the positive of having to do nothing but
      enjoy it working on its own.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

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    6. #66
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      I'm at a total loss as to any correlation you're making between feather rock and other medias here.

      I'll just go on record in saying that the media that has worked well for me in a shower with no
      maintenance is feather rock. It's stayed very clean and required me to do nothing to it going into
      it's 9th year in operation. If you want to make that into a negative thing, that's your call. I've not
      experienced any of the negatives you suggest, but only the positive of having to do nothing but
      enjoy it working on its own.
      Never meant to push any buttons. I've got nothing but adoration for your pond Steve. I personally think it is the one of the best (if not the best) pond ever built. I should have said this from the start (insensitive me). Sorry if I sounded negative.
      Last edited by KoiRun; 1 Week Ago at 12:57 AM.
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    7. #67
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      No apologizes necessary. I just don't understand the correlation between bog filters and feather rock in a shower with
      several thousand gallons pouring over it.
      I've stated my thoughts so the floor is yours.
      --Steve
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    8. #68
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      'Bog filter' only because it is never cleaned and because within its deeper passages or pores lies anaerobic or microaerophilic conditions where denitrification can take place. I've always wondered why many think showers are so great (I've never had one) now I think I know why.
      Activated charcoal's adsorptive capacity lasts only a few months. All along charcoal also functions as any other type media that bacteria can attach to, but different in that it has an incredible amount of surface area.
      I have had experience with submerged media, trickle tower, and shower biological filters.

      It has been my experience, like many others, that shower filters usually perform very well.

      I have no experience with moving bed filters.

    9. #69
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      No apologizes necessary. I just don't understand the correlation between bog filters and feather rock in a shower with
      several thousand gallons pouring over it.
      I've stated my thoughts so the floor is yours.
      The correlation is both might have an anoxic/anaerobic component at work that is providing a level of denitrification. Not a direct comparison of aerobic bacteria activity, overall function and maintenance.
      The real Batman wears polyester! Don't be fooled by the plastic imposter.

    10. #70
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      Quote Originally Posted by batman View Post
      The correlation is both might have an anoxic/anaerobic component at work that is providing a level of denitrification. Not a direct comparison of aerobic bacteria activity, overall function and maintenance.
      Thanks batman, I wouldn't have been able to explain it so succinctly .
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin

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    11. #71
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      It's amazing after billions spent worldwide on nitrification and denitrification research the gaps in totally understanding the processes in nature. Every year something new and relevant is published.
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    12. #72
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      Very interesting with the denitrification part.

      My spontanous questions: Do I need to give organic carbon source to the denitrification bacteria or the leaked organic matter from the koi food is enough? Will normal sugar (sucrose) do? Will addition of sucrose harm koi?

    13. #73
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      Many using showers and media such as feather rock and Bacteria House claim along with excellent nitrification additional low or near zero nitrates. Some think the denitrification is happening deep in the media in regions with less oxygen. Others think the excessive splashing is releasing the nitrogen. Multiple studies have disproven the splashing theory. Personally I believe people using these systems that are reporting low or near zero nitrates are correct. It hasn't been lab verified it is shower related.

      Normal shower operation and no addition of a carbon source.
      The real Batman wears polyester! Don't be fooled by the plastic imposter.

    14. #74
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      There is so much we do not know. The simple Nitrogen cycle circle is outdated.

      Recently somebody shared a YouTube video (https://youtu.be/sAVkZ5Xr5IU) about The Anammox Process.

      Name:  nitrogen_web.jpg
Views: 35
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      member

    15. #75
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      Quote Originally Posted by batman View Post
      Many using showers and media such as feather rock and Bacteria House claim along with excellent nitrification additional low or near zero nitrates. Some think the denitrification is happening deep in the media in regions with less oxygen. Others think the excessive splashing is releasing the nitrogen. Multiple studies have disproven the splashing theory. Personally I believe people using these systems that are reporting low or near zero nitrates are correct. It hasn't been lab verified it is shower related.

      Normal shower operation and no addition of a carbon source.
      Thanks!

      Maybe we can write it down here how much less nitrate our systems are producing than they are supposed to do, also what kind of filter systems we have. Then we will know which of them are better at removing nitrate.

      I have calculated to 40% less nitrate produced in my system, based on the amount of food I am adding. I have a simple pressure filter, and some friend here told me that pressure filter is the least efficient.

      How I calculated (all are weight/weight):

      Proteins contain in average 16% N, which is equivolent to 19% NH3. So 100 g koi food with 30% protein content has 4.8 g N, which will be 5.8 g NH3, 15 g NO2, and 21 g NO3 respectively through the biofilter system. In a volume of 1 m3 it means 6 ppm NH3, 15 ppm NO2 and 21 ppm NO3, respectively.
      Last edited by SimonW; 6 Days Ago at 09:38 AM.

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