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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
    Results 21 to 38 of 38

    Thread: Help Ammonia Shocked Koi

    1. #21
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      Frankly, I don't trust the test strips much abut we'll deal with them since that is what you've got. Disregard the hardness (GH) test, it has no value in this situation.

      Since both tanks are showing nitrites, they are trying to start up again.
      Am I missing an ammonia reading?

      It boils down to this, if there is an ammonia or nitrite reading the tanks are either recovering from pH crashes and/or they cannot sustain the amount of ammonia present in the tanks. It's critical to maintain the KH level over 100, 120 is better as in start up. The filters (bio bacteria) are consuming the ammonia and nitrites (acids) in greater amounts.

      Nothing in the behavior you are speaking of is outside of what is very common with pH crashed water. That is why we are stressing the need to stabilize the water, ASAP. Stable means zero ammonia, zero nitrites and a KH value above 100, 120 is better.

      So many of the things that can present as parasites are also the things fish do when the water is out of whack.
      Rule out water as a cause then deal with what you see once the water is stable. Fish have only so many ways they can indicate to us they aren't feeling well and their responses to water quality are not dissimilar to illness or parasites.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    2. #22
      ademink's Avatar
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      I'm trying to figure out how we can possibly have a of 5.5 pH w/ water that hard.

      My guess is that it is a misreading.

      If you are using ammolock that SHOULD be binding the ammonia.

      To my knowledge (limited w/ this product), ammolock does not bind nitrite. This means you will need to use salt to protect your fish from nitrite poisoning.

      Marilyn...I don't want to cross-step the work you are doing here so will just toss that out there for you to catch and carry. LOL
      Andrea
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    3. #23
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      Honestly, I'm not quite sure what to make of the hardness reading given what the pH was and nitrite is. I suspect it is the related to the test itself.

      I'm going with what I do know will make the odds of ammonia an issue and will deal with the definite nitrite readings.

      You and I are helper 3 and 4 to the thread.
      Andrea is right, Fangs, you can add salt to the tanks showing nitrites. Bring the salt level to .1-.15 for each tank. It will protect the koi from the nitrites. On it's own salt can be a mild therapeutic too so there is no downside to using it. Just make sure to have good aeration in each tank, please.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    4. #24
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      Andrea
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    5. #25
      Fangs is offline Junior Member
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      Ok I finally got my liquid test kits

      As of now these are the current results.
      Hospital tank
      GH 30 KH 80 ph 8.2 ammonia 0.25 ppm nitrite 0ppm nitrate 0ppm
      Main Tank
      GH 180 KH 40 ph 7.6 ammonia 0.25 ppm nitrite 0ppm nitrate 80ppm

      I am still doing daily water changes on both. I am conditioning now with Prime. Feeding is every other day, though is there any suggestions for feeding my sick koi in the hospital tank as it can not swim to eat anymore and seems to have lost its appetite?
      Should also add that filters have been changed several times over the last few days, once I had the filtration system back up, and substrate has been vacuumed.
      I should also add that I removed the only live plant that was in the main tank as it was dying/dead and only adding to the ammonia problem.

    6. #26
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      I've been hesitant to try adding salt as the only experience I had with it was years ago. I was advised to use salt for a sick gold fish and the result was a very fast death of the fish (within an hour the fish went from lethargic but ok to dead). I had only added a few grams of the salt too.
      However, I am willing to try anything at this stag. Will try using the calculator suggested and add salt to the hospital tank. However before I add it to the main tank, am I reading that calculator correctly? My main tank is 75 gallons and it suggests a whopping 1.8lbs of salt? That seems... extreme. If thats right, I will try it, but I just want to make sure I am not screwing that up somewhere first.

    7. #27
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      Okay, we've given you the tools to resolve the KH level in 75g tank. Please do so, at 40ppm KH after a pH crash that will quickly be depleted and you're dealing with another pH crash. Bind the ammonia, raise the KH to 120ppm. Do it tonight, do not wait.

      The salt is to protect them from what is called brown blood disease, you can google it.
      A salt reading of .1-.12 will protect them. It's an insignificant amount health wise and will not bother them or affect future treatments. I'm including a screenshot of the proper amount as your calculation was not correct.

      Name:  Screen Shot 2019-11-02 at 3.17.45 AM.png
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      Aside from lethargy, what symptoms does the hospital tank occupant exhibit? It is okay to feed a tiny bit, try a sink pellet or a touch of krill, perhaps. The main thing is to stimulate an interest in food.
      Do you have any medications for treatment on hand?
      Last edited by Marilyn; 1 Week Ago at 03:28 AM.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    8. #28
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      One further thing, unless the filters are dirty, don't over clean them. You are trying to establish bacteria and disruption of temp or using city water will knock them back or do it in.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    9. #29
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      It doesn't take much chloride to make nitrite non-toxic. Far less than needed when desiring to increase salinity for other reasons.

      From Toxic effects of nitrite on freshwater organisms: a review:

      Where nitrite accumulation may occur in fish-rearing facilities, Cl-/N–NO-2 weight ratio in water is recommended to be kept at a minimum of 100 (Svobodova et al. 2005; Buric et al. 2016). Increased chloride concentrations are achieved by adding common salt (sodium chloride). A dose of 165 mg of salt per litre of water (or 165 g m?3 water) raises chloride concentration by 100 mg L?1.
      4 ppm NO2- / 3.286 = 1.22 mg/L NO2-N
      1.22 mg/L NO2-N * 100 = 122 mg/L
      75 gal * 3.785412 = 284 L
      122 mg/L * 284 L = 34,560 mg Cl-
      34,560 mg Cl- / (22.99/58.44) = 87,850 mg NaCl = 88 g

      100:1 is quite a lot more than other sources that recommend 4:1 or 6:1. Even then it's still a lot less than what it takes to achieve 0.12% salinity.

    10. #30
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      The salt has already shown signs of improvement. Thank you all for helping me calculate and suggest that.

      I am continuing the water changes and tackling the ammonia issues, but I had something come up in the hospital tank and I am honestly not sure how to proceed or even be concerned.

      After introducing the salt, the koi has already started to gain energy and appetite, but while feeding it today, I noticed some things floating in the water. At first I thought it was just hair (I have a dog and several cats so small hairs are everywhere, but realized it was moving. I fished out what looks like... a very small insect of some kind.

      It is almost translucent with long legs and a tiny body. I at first thought it might of been a spider, but after examining it, I do not recognize it as any spider we have in my area. It is TINY, easily mistaken for some very fine loose hairs.
      I am not sure if this was something that got into the tank or if it is something I should be concerned about. Is it possibly a parasite that was drawn out by the salt? The thing died almost immediately as I removed it from the water. I've been lucky to have never had to deal with parasites before with my koi, but unfortunately that means I am extremely uneducated on how to identify or treat them.
      I don't know if I am being overly paranoid at this point either, so would really like some input before jumping to treat another problem that might not even be a problem.

    11. #31
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      There are few parasites that are visible to the naked eye. I can think of only two; anchor worm and lice. You can google for images and see if that looks like what you are seeing. Typically we see them attached to the fish.

      I asked if you have any medications on hand for treatments, would you answer that please?

      So, just to be clear, you should be binding the ammonia and maintaining the KH above 100. This is important, even in the midst of treatments. Water quality is something that will undermine their natural immunity to all kinds of things. It's one of the reasons I stress healthy water.
      Healthy is in part zero ammonia, zero nitrite, KH maintained above 100 and even water temps.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    12. #32
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      FYI, if you are using an ammonia binder, you will likely see a reading of .25 on your drip kit. Ammonia binders can give you a false reading.
      Andrea
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    13. #33
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      Sorry, yes, I do have several medications on hand for treatment. Melafix is a standard I keep, API Ammonia Lock, PH Up, Stress coat, Stress Zyme, and Aquarium Salt. Switched to Prime for my water conditioner, but before was using API tap water conditioner.

      Looking at the anchor worm and the lice, it doesn't seem to be what I found. I am more starting to suspect it was some insect variety I've not seen before that just snuck into the tank. Still thought I'd be cautious and ask, though.

    14. #34
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      Fangs, I am going to be blunt here. Those are not medications. Some are water treatments (ammonia control) and the Melafix is, at best, a therapeutic. Salt kind of falls into the last category.

      By medications, I'm looking for something that has something like this one the label, "effective in the treatment for flukes, costia, parasites".
      Malachite Green and Formalin are often in them.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    15. #35
      Fangs is offline Junior Member
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      Could you possibly be more specific as to what you are asking me to look for?
      Most of my fish stores near me will at most direct people towards melafix for anything medical related to fish, with only water treatment chemicals as any other "medicine" for fish. Other wise I've seen Pimafix but have never bought or been advised to get it.
      I've not stocked anything more on hand as I've never needed anything more. Melafix was all I've used for years, though I've never had any major problems in my fish tanks that required heavier treatment, outside of this incident.

    16. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by Fangs View Post
      Could you possibly be more specific as to what you are asking me to look for?
      Most of my fish stores near me will at most direct people towards melafix for anything medical related to fish, with only water treatment chemicals as any other "medicine" for fish. Other wise I've seen Pimafix but have never bought or been advised to get it.
      I've not stocked anything more on hand as I've never needed anything more. Melafix was all I've used for years, though I've never had any major problems in my fish tanks that required heavier treatment, outside of this incident.
      This is tough as we don't have a direct thing we are looking to treat. I asked because most people that have had aquariums usually have a stock of some kind of parasite treatment.
      We haven't diagnosed parasites, the only thing that has been clear thus far was a water quality issue. I'm still not clear what issue the koi is suffering from other than water quality.

      If you're asking what I would recommend to keep on hand, go to a pet store and look for something that treats costia. The active ingredients are the ones I listed for you above. The other medication to have on hand would be something to treat flukes. My personal preference for flukes is Kusuri FlukeM.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    17. #37
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      Just an update.
      My fish is on the uphill now.
      He has stopped floating on his side, is swimming with energy again and has finally started eating on his own.
      I will be keeping him in the hospital tank for another week or so to give him time to fully recover and regain all his strength, but I can safely say he is finally off death's door.

    18. #38
      ademink's Avatar
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      great news!
      Andrea
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