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  • Results 1 to 13 of 13

    Thread: New Pond - Need some filtration help

    1. #1
      RMates is offline Junior Member
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      New Pond - Need some filtration help

      Hi all we are breaking ground on a new pond and would like some help getting the right equipment selected and configured. The dimensions of the pond will be 22'LX16'WX5'D roundish freeform shape. We are figuring around 12-13,000 gallons. The initial plan is to have one circuit with (2) 4" bottom drains feed an Ultra sieve III then pump to an Ultima 20,000 and back to a wide waterfall along the back of the pond. A second circuit with 2 skimmers (thinking Savio) which would connect directly to a pump then another filter (Ultima?) then return to 4-5 TPR's. We will incorporate a UV (looking at the EVO55 or 75) not sure on the placement yet, or possibly one on each circuit. The equipment will be placed roughly 75' from the pond so we have not settled on specific pumps yet.
      Should we also be looking to incorporate a dedicated bio filter to one of the circuits or do the bead filters suffice? Another concern was water volume for the water fall, it will be fairly wide roughly 8-9' at its widest point and 4-5' high. Would a third pump with a mid pond pick-up be a good idea to add more water volume to the falls? We have done a lot of reading on the boards here and are open to any suggestions you may have. This being our first major pond build we have tons of questions some of which we don't even know to ask yet. so thanks in advance for any input and help, we will include pictures as we get under way.

    2. #2
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by RMates View Post
      Hi all we are breaking ground on a new pond and would like some help getting the right equipment selected and configured. The dimensions of the pond will be 22'LX16'WX5'D roundish freeform shape. We are figuring around 12-13,000 gallons. The initial plan is to have one circuit with (2) 4" bottom drains feed an Ultra sieve III then pump to an Ultima 20,000 and back to a wide waterfall along the back of the pond. A second circuit with 2 skimmers (thinking Savio) which would connect directly to a pump then another filter (Ultima?) then return to 4-5 TPR's. We will incorporate a UV (looking at the EVO55 or 75) not sure on the placement yet, or possibly one on each circuit. The equipment will be placed roughly 75' from the pond so we have not settled on specific pumps yet.
      Should we also be looking to incorporate a dedicated bio filter to one of the circuits or do the bead filters suffice? Another concern was water volume for the water fall, it will be fairly wide roughly 8-9' at its widest point and 4-5' high. Would a third pump with a mid pond pick-up be a good idea to add more water volume to the falls? We have done a lot of reading on the boards here and are open to any suggestions you may have. This being our first major pond build we have tons of questions some of which we don't even know to ask yet. so thanks in advance for any input and help, we will include pictures as we get under way.
      Welcome and thanks for joining Koiphen!
      Sounds like a great start on the plan. I'm not sure on how many or what type of fish (if any) you plan on stocking but
      I think a dedicated bio filter would be a good idea. Showers are my favorite but I've used moving beds with K1 and they
      worked well too.
      I've read that 100 gallons inch for a waterfall is a good starting point. Some will depend on if you're after a weir style
      flow or a more natural one. Also how far off the pond surface it falls can make a big difference in the amount that looks
      good to you.
      A mid water pickup with no filtration I think would be a waste and might make maintenance harder since you'd probably
      need to clean the priming pot as the debris will flow straight to it.

      Sounds like a big project... I hope you'll share the build when you get started!
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "I know what I have to do now. I got to keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise.
      Who knows what the tide could bring." --Tom Hanks in Cast Away

    3. #3
      Asagibottom is offline Member
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      I will say you probably don't need more than one UV light if sized somewhat appropriately. Here's why... if an algae bloom occurs, or detrimental bacteria, it'll eventually hit the UV. It may take a week to clear but it will stay clear. People often worry about going too low and oversize their UV light in that way. If you want it to shock anything and everything in the first pass, by all means, get 5 UV lights. But if you want it clear and healthy, and simply to stay that way as a transitional process (which I think is best) size a UV light this way, 15 watts per 1000 gallons. Anything else is above and beyond imo.
      Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out. Proverbs 20:5 Asv

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      RMates is offline Junior Member
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      Thanks I wasn't sure about the mid water pick-up, I think we can get enough water up there with the main circuit and some diverted from the skimmer circuit. If I wanted to add the plumbing just in case what is the best way to go about it, I was thinking about using a third bottom drain mounted to the side wall (if that's possible). Is there is a rule of thumb for how much water to feed 4-5 TPR's?
      So on the UV it sounds like two of the EVO75's would be needed to get to 150watts total.

    5. #5
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by RMates View Post
      Thanks I wasn't sure about the mid water pick-up, I think we can get enough water up there with the main circuit and some diverted from the skimmer circuit. If I wanted to add the plumbing just in case what is the best way to go about it, I was thinking about using a third bottom drain mounted to the side wall (if that's possible). Is there is a rule of thumb for how much water to feed 4-5 TPR's?
      So on the UV it sounds like two of the EVO75's would be needed to get to 150watts total.
      I think a mid water for a "just in case" line is perfect and it can just be valved closed until (or if) you need it.
      I used a couple of 3" Koi Toilets that worked great for mid water pickups.
      1500 gph for each tpr imo is minimum. 2000 gph is better... but ultimately depends on if you're gravity flowing
      to them or pump fed. It often sounds like a lot of flow but here's a good picture that puts 2000 gph from a tpr
      in perspective (Birdman's pond):

      Name:  birdman tpr flow.jpg
Views: 182
Size:  86.9 KB
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "I know what I have to do now. I got to keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise.
      Who knows what the tide could bring." --Tom Hanks in Cast Away

    6. #6
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      Welcome! I'm also doing my first pond build (as an adult), though mine is tiny - 1000 gal.

      I'll echo and say yeah, put in a dedicated bio. Though I'm not seeing in your original post where you describe / name the bead filters; I might have missed it.

      Here's everything you ever wanted to know about plumbing, calculating head, and pump sizing:
      https://www.koiphen.com/members/harv...umbing-2-1.pdf

      Note, I had to read that pdf through twice to understand it all, so expect to spend some time with it. It's like drinking from the firehose as far as information density. It's not the first time I've done info absorption like that, so in my experience, I'd recommend a casual read-through on the first pass. Look up any words you don't understand. Get familiar with the concepts, even if you don't understand them 100%. Read in comfortable chunks - you'll retain more if you read one or two chunks per day, whatever your chunk size happens to be. Sleeping helps our brains remember and understand stuff better.

      Then give it a couple of days, and go back and read it a second time, with a pencil, paper, and calculator. Start trying to do the math for your setup.

      I don't know what the ideal flow rate per TPR is, but for a pond that big, I think I'd go with ~8 instead of 4. Otherwise you're pushing quite a bit through only 4 TPR's for a huge pond. If I was a fish I wouldn't want to stumble into that // Edit: just saw Steve's reply; so I'll totally say "yes please go with the opinion of the more experienced person" lol. // I also think you'll get better circulation (and moving of waste to your BD's) with more than 4 TPR's.

      There's a diagram somewhere of how to position TPR's in various shapes of ponds, I'll see if I can find it.

      And to be clear, yes you'll need about 10,000 GPH of flow for that 8-9' wide waterfall (8' == 96", which would need 9,600 gph).
      Last edited by Artemis; 4 Weeks Ago at 04:45 PM.

    7. #7
      RMates is offline Junior Member
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      my initial thought for the filtration circuits are:
      Circuit 1 - both 4" bottom drains feed into Ultra sieve III then pump to Ultima 20000 and return to the falls - Roughly 7200gph
      Circuit 2 - I would like to have one skimmer feed a nexus 320 (not sure if I can gravity flow that much or not) with additional bio media and return to the falls for addition flow - 3000gph
      Circuit 3 - a second skimmer connected to a pump which would feed the TPR's - aiming for 1500-2000gph per TPR.

      Another thought I had was to have one bottom drain and 1 skimmer feed to the ultra sieve circuit and then second bottom drain to the nexus. The remaining skimmer would still directly feed the TPR's.

      What kind of flow rate can you typically get from gravity flowing skimmers? would it be similar to the bottom drains assuming the pipe size is the same.

    8. #8
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by RMates View Post
      my initial thought for the filtration circuits are:
      Circuit 1 - both 4" bottom drains feed into Ultra sieve III then pump to Ultima 20000 and return to the falls - Roughly 7200gph
      Circuit 2 - I would like to have one skimmer feed a nexus 320 (not sure if I can gravity flow that much or not) with additional bio media and return to the falls for addition flow - 3000gph
      Circuit 3 - a second skimmer connected to a pump which would feed the TPR's - aiming for 1500-2000gph per TPR.

      Another thought I had was to have one bottom drain and 1 skimmer feed to the ultra sieve circuit and then second bottom drain to the nexus. The remaining skimmer would still directly feed the TPR's.

      What kind of flow rate can you typically get from gravity flowing skimmers? would it be similar to the bottom drains assuming the pipe size is the same.
      For circuit 2 you might be able to flow close to 3000 gph from a single skimmer if you enlarge its outlet to 3" or 4" with a 8" weir door and
      with a little more than inch drop in that weir door. But the typical 1 1/2" or 2" outlet with a 8" weir won't gravity flow that much from a skimmer.

      Again, having a circuit just going through a skimmer seems like a waste of electricity. If you can run that through some bio filter
      I think it'd be much better.

      As far as skimmer max flows you can get an idea using Bazins calculator (I use .62 for the Discharge Constant):

      https://www.easycalculation.com/phys...-weir-flow.php

      But the adjacent pipe needs to be large enough to handle the flow too.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "I know what I have to do now. I got to keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise.
      Who knows what the tide could bring." --Tom Hanks in Cast Away

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by RMates View Post
      Thanks I wasn't sure about the mid water pick-up, I think we can get enough water up there with the main circuit and some diverted from the skimmer circuit. If I wanted to add the plumbing just in case what is the best way to go about it, I was thinking about using a third bottom drain mounted to the side wall (if that's possible). Is there is a rule of thumb for how much water to feed 4-5 TPR's?
      So on the UV it sounds like two of the EVO75's would be needed to get to 150watts total.
      FWIW- I have a similarly sized pond, about 12,500 gal. I use the
      Periha UV-B Series 54W Submersible UV and it works great - and a bit cheaper than the ones you have mentioned - I do, however, incorporate a shade sail and will likely do some floating plant beds next year.

      You will likely be very disappointed with only two four inch bottom drains. I have three, and that seems about right for the footprint (mine is rectangular - 12X25), but I would have liked more just for flow. Adding at least a couple mid-water intakes is a good idea-

      Jim

    10. #10
      RMates is offline Junior Member
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      power is not to big of a concern the house a large solar system on it so electricity bill is not much if anything. I am more concerned about getting enough flow to the large water fall and the bottom drain circuit and nexus would max out at 7500gph and 3000gph which is right around the minimum for a 9-10' wide falls. I agree about the extra bio I would prefer not to have a pump just for moving water, but not sure what I can incorporate there. The layout necessitates the equipment be in the pit.
      I like the idea of a third bottom drain and think I will do just that. the third drain can feed the nexus and the two skimmers can be connected to the pump for extra flow or something else. I read that the nexus filter can accommodate a lot more K1 then it comes with, I'm thinking I will add as much as possible there. Thanks for the input, the digging is getting under way I will get some pictures together this week.

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      RMates is offline Junior Member
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      Here are a few pics of the dig so far. Name:  EA473EFF-4428-47BE-84C1-11E82A035A59.jpg
Views: 105
Size:  204.6 KBName:  3CCF85F6-EA05-4146-B96B-7D79F807F3DA.jpg
Views: 102
Size:  203.0 KB

    12. #12
      RMates is offline Junior Member
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      As I was getting my equipment list together to start ordering I came across the RDF's it seems like that may be the way to go. The Profidrum combi bio 50 would basically replace the sieve, bead and nexus filters, looking at the cost it really would not be much more. I plan on doing some more research into them, but if anyone has any input or suggestions that would be appreciated.

    13. #13
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      This info may be of use. On Facebook, go to the Koi Keepers of North America group. At the top left look for the "Files" section. In Files scroll down until you seen the document "Filtration Basics". You may need to scroll down; the document was posted at. the beginning of. this year.


      https://www.facebook.com/groups/1659160994297532/files/

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