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    Thread: Help with bilateral sores on koi

    1. #1
      PRIDEANDKOI is offline Member
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      Help with bilateral sores on koi

      Hello Everyone. A few days ago I noticed that my large white female koi has a quarter sized sore on her right side. She is eating and acting fine so I thought it might be an injury. I have been monitoring it for a few day to see if it might clear up on it's own but today I noticed what appears to be the start of another sore in exactly the same spot on her left side. Her scales seem to be a bit raised on the left and she's got some pinkness in that area. Everyone else in the pond is fine.

      Pond is 5k gallons. Two waterfalls. Two pumps moving water at a combined 13,600 gph through a waterfall biofilter and a plant bog. Dedicated aeration line around perimeter of pond.
      KH is at 4 drops
      Ammonia is at 0-.25 ppm
      GH is at 10 drops.
      PH is 8.0
      Nitrite is 0 ppm
      Nitrate is 40 ppm (I always have a herd time reading this one 40 and 80 look so similar to me. pic attached if that helps).

      Notable. I have 2 large koi 2 medium koi. 4 small-ish koi and some butterfly goldfish. I have about 30 baby koi that somehow were born this spring! I have been feeding the babies homemade food 3-4 times a day trying to fatten them up before winter as I am really hoping they survive! Water is crystal clear despite all of the tiny baby fish food going in. No new fish or plants added.

      Temperatures around here have just dropped in the last week. Fall has finally arrived. Nights are upper 50s and days are still mid 70s. Daytime water temp is mid 60's. But we went from summer in the 90's to a 20 degree temp drop literally overnight!

      Appreciate any thoughts on what this might be. I don't have a scope and catching my fish is SO HARD because of the (maybe too awesome) huge fish cave I built them from a 36" wide culvert pipe!
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    2. #2
      ademink's Avatar
      ademink is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
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      Is it in almost the same spot on the opposite side? Wondering if a heron tried to snag it and scraped each side with its beak. Are they reddish raised areas or actual open sores/ulcers? Great job on giving us info on the front end of your post - very good!
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    3. #3
      PRIDEANDKOI is offline Member
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      One more thing...we have had no rain here so rainwater or runoff isn't an issue. Here is a better close up of the right side ulcer on 10-11Name:  right side close up.jpg
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    4. #4
      PRIDEANDKOI is offline Member
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      Hi Andrea. Almost identical spot on the opposite side! I have learned to post all info up front from you guys so great job teaching me! I do spend quite a bit of time looking at my fish and didn't notice the left side until today. Right side is an open ulcer. Left side is a few localized raised scales and some slight reddening. Right side isn't getting better, but not really significantly worse either. If it is a heron that is one ambitious bird because this is my largest fish. She's probably 20" +/- I wish I could get better clearer pictures. I'll keep trying to take and post better ones. Thanks for your response and feedback!

    5. #5
      ademink's Avatar
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      At this point, you can keep your water quality pristine and wait and see if they improve or you're going to need to bite the bullet and pull the fish to treat. :D
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    6. #6
      PRIDEANDKOI is offline Member
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      Gotcha. If the left side develops into an ulcer I think I can safely assume she needs to be treated, correct? How long would you let it go either way before trying to catch her. As temps get colder in my area (Washington DC) I think I should try to treat, if necessary, before we dip too low. Is that correct? Can you point me to a thread where I can get more info about what I would need to treat her (meds, etc.) and the protocol for that. I'm assuming I'm sedating her, right? If I have to do it I want to have everything on hand that I will need beforehand. My koi "medicine cabinet" only consists of the meds needed to treat the entire pond. I have never treated an individual fish before. I do have a 275 gallon quarantine tank that can be set up at a moments notice. Is that what you're talking about? Sorry for all of the questions but I don't want her to get really sick and then I'm waiting for meds and stuff to be delivered. Trying to be proactive and prepared!

    7. #7
      PRIDEANDKOI is offline Member
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      I may have answered one of my own questions. Is this the correct treatment protocol? https://hanoverkoifarms.com/koi-wounds/

    8. #8
      ademink's Avatar
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      That is a good protocol...it's more than I do, quite honestly.

      I would recommend purchasing Tricide-Neo powder. You can get it various places online - I get it from Koi Acres. I personally purchase the large sized pack b/c you will not use it as directed and if stored properly...it lasts forever.

      I use the Tricide direct-application method. It's great b/c it's a "one and done". I've only had to re-treat one time when it was a really bad ulcer.

      *Sedate the fish with clove oil and put on a surface that it won't slide off. I create a cradle out of small towels and lay plastic on it so the fish stays wet and doesn't rub it's slime coat off on something dry/abrasive.
      *Put a moist paper towel over the exposed eye
      *Put a little Tricide powder in a pile on top of a baggie (don't dip in the package. Important. You don't want moisture in the product)
      *Take a qtip and get it wet by gently rubbing on the with the fish's slime coat....dip it in the pile of powder
      *Gently* "work" it into the ulcerated areas, continuing to create a paste out of the powder and slime coat until there is Tricide on all wounds. It will goop up on the qtip so just keep kind of wiping it back on the fish
      *Leave it on for 2-3 minutes (feels like eternity lol)
      *Wipe it off gently and return koi to pond/QT and revive

      Close Tricide package tightly, put in a ziploc and store in the freezer. This saves a LOT of product and you don't have to repeat the process on the fish
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    9. #9
      PRIDEANDKOI is offline Member
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      Thank you Andrea. Excellent info! Ordering the Tricide and clove oil now. Left side is looking more angry today so something is definitely going on. Any thoughts on how long it generally takes to notice healing? I want to get after this before it gets too cold so I feel like I may be working against the clock a bit.

    10. #10
      ademink's Avatar
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      The colder the water, the longer it can take to heal. You are in a tiny bit of a catch 22 b/c if you leave her in QT for too long to heal w/ warmer water (ie add a heater), then you end up w/ a 20 degree difference between the pond and QT. It's hard to move them to the pond at that point.

      I would probably treat and return her to the pond. You can always pull her again in a few weeks if you don't see improvement (this is unlikely...you probably will be in good shape) and keep her inside for the winter.

      Make sure to get some good water changes in.

      If you want to really nip things in the potential bud, you could treat for parasites before it gets too cold. You can get a formalin + malachite green product (ie proform-C, BSDT, terminate) as well as either Fluke-M (my preference) or praziquantel for flukes. Your water temps need to be above 50 for the FMG treatment for three days. On the third day you will add the fluke treatment (not temperature sensitive).

      If you decide to do this, I can give specifics. It's an easy process.

      There are always parasites in the pond. When your koi get weak and numbers of parasites increase, you can end up w/ things like what your koi has. Without a full scrape and scope we can't know for sure but treating will knock back anything potentially before winter and send you into the cold months in good shape.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



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