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    Thread: Doitsu koi dying

    1. #1
      Vaul is offline Junior Member
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      Doitsu koi dying

      Hi, Iím a long time fish keeper who recently got into koi. I setup a pond, cycled it and have been keeping koi in it for the past 2 months and Iíve lost only 1 fish in the 1st week. A regular butterfly koi, the only one that I had in the pond. Last week, I added 7 doitsu after 2 weeks of quarantine. 6 died in the last 3 days. I do not see any damage and I cannot determine any kinda illness either. The other fish are still eating and swimming fine. I checked the water and this are the parameters
      Dkh: 5
      Ph: 6.8
      Ammonia: 0
      Nitrite: 0
      Nitrate: 5
      Temperature: 28 degrees Celsius

      Itís a 500 gallon pond with 17 koi fish at the size of 6-8 inches, now only 11 remain.

      I plan to increase pond size in about 2 years and dwindle the number of fish to 5-7 fish based on my liking.

      Kindly assist on what could be wrong or how else can I diagnose this issue, to save the remaining doitsu and also the other fishes in case this takes a crazier turn.

      Thank you.

    2. #2
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      It's going to be impossible to say since we have no pics and you're not describing any illness or symptoms of illness, just death.
      You've got a large fish load for the pond size. It means things will happen quickly if they are heading in the wrong direction. Crowding creates a certain level of stress and stress can trigger lots of issues.

      If the koi were totally asymptomatic but perished, I suspect it is a water quality issue. Your DKH is low. Most ponds I'm familiar with have a pH between 7.8-8.4. This is enough KH for the nitrifying bacteria to have what they need to keep the ammonia and nitrite at zero.
      If it isn't a water quality issue, it could be illness but I haven't a clue without more information.

      Have you contacted the source you got the Doitsu from to see if they are dealing with health concerns with them?
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    3. #3
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      Btw, do you have a test for KH?
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    4. #4
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      As Marilyn has stated, the pH of most ponds with a decent KH buffer level will usually be much higher than you are reporting. Check the pH first thing in the morning, near daylight, and last thing in the afternoon, near sunset, and if there is a change of more than 0.2 or 0.3 then there is insufficient buffer and the pH swings are creating conditions that lead to death of the fish, but also the bacteria in the filter that provide the low ammonia and nitrite that is required.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    5. #5
      Vaul is offline Junior Member
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      I haven’t noticed any kinda of issue on the fish body, that’s why I did not include any pictures. But I noticed something on the remaining doitsu body today morning, will take some pictures later and post it here. I’ll also test the ph again later in the evening and tomorrow morning. I do have a kh tester, the DKh was at 5 when I checked. I also have 2 albino common pleco in the pool, could they be disturbing the koi? I ran the pond for about 2-3 months before adding the koi inside, made sure I completed the nitrogen cycle and I’m using 2 filters, a sump and an internal filter. Both filters together are about 3500 gallons per hour. So, I’m not too concerned about ammonia or nitrite levels as they’ve been zero for about a month now since I started checking them. The body seems to have ulcers or lacerations, that’s what it looks like

    6. #6
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      Thanks, I thought so but wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

      Your pH reading doesnít correspond to a KH to a pH reading below 7. Please follow Richís recommendation and test your pH.

      Just so Iím clear, your koi showed no signs of illness, no behavior indicating illness until this most recent koi?
      Iím using my phone so posting the link would be difficult. Check out the stickies regarding behavior.
      Itís very difficult to discern from the info provided if there is illness/disease, parasites or an underlying water issue.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    7. #7
      Vaul is offline Junior Member
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      Koi picture

      These are the pictures
      Attached Images Attached Images    

    8. #8
      Vaul is offline Junior Member
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      I’m using the serra kh tester, maybe I’m doing it wrong. 1st time using it. The old ones are swimming and eating fine, I did not notice any weird behavior. I only notice the remaining doitsu with ulcers not as active and just sitting in the bottom of the pond...

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by Vaul View Post
      These are the pictures
      That does not look like a Doitsu Koi
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    10. #10
      Vaul is offline Junior Member
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      Could this be costia or slime disease? Also, rain water from the roof and also directly will enter the pond coz it’s partial under the roof and partially outside. Could this be due to that, like excess of iron or something messing up the water. Thanks

    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by Vaul View Post
      Could this be costia or slime disease? Also, rain water from the roof and also directly will enter the pond coz it’s partial under the roof and partially outside. Could this be due to that, like excess of iron or something messing up the water. Thanks
      Test your water and do a scrape and scope on your fish and you shall have your answers.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    12. #12
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Vaul View Post
      Could this be costia or slime disease? Also, rain water from the roof and also directly will enter the pond coz it’s partial under the roof and partially outside. Could this be due to that, like excess of iron or something messing up the water. Thanks
      Roof runoff is not an ideal water source for a pond. Impossible to say yes or no as to it causing this without having the water tested for a poisoning of sorts. Rain water is also very low in KH so again, not ideal.
      Since all the koi are not being affected, it sounds like something is up with the newest fish though if it was parasitic, viral or bacterial, I would expect it to be affecting the existing koi if the newest ones are dying from it.

      Did you contact the supplier of these koi to see if they are having issues?
      I agree with the scrape and scope to check for parasites. Again, the supplier may be dealing with issues on the fish remaining at their facility. Call them.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    13. #13
      Vaul is offline Junior Member
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      I’ll go over to the koi farm tomorrow to check on it, I’ll also be getting a general parasite treatment for koi and start with that because the other normal koi are still ok, but that picture is of a normal koi, not a doitsu...I just realized that the doitsu tancho died already. So, I’m beginning to really freak out. I’ve not lost more than 1-2 fish in a short time frame in a long time. I’ve made a mistake of not getting koi meds beforehand, too overconfident I guess. Thanks.

      Also, where can I do a scrape test? I’m not sure if the farm will have a microscope.

    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Vaul View Post
      I’ll go over to the koi farm tomorrow to check on it, I’ll also be getting a general parasite treatment for koi and start with that because the other normal koi are still ok, but that picture is of a normal koi, not a doitsu...I just realized that the doitsu tancho died already. So, I’m beginning to really freak out. I’ve not lost more than 1-2 fish in a short time frame in a long time. I’ve made a mistake of not getting koi meds beforehand, too overconfident I guess. Thanks.

      Also, where can I do a scrape test? I’m not sure if the farm will have a microscope.
      You should learn to do it and have your own microscope. This hobby is about learning to take care of your wet pets.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    15. #15
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Aeration??

      Garfield
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    16. #16
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      PH at 6.8 may be a little low if you get rain which may bring PH down. I use regular baking soda in my pond. It keeps the PH at exactly 8 and my KH I keep at about 140. I add baking soda every week approx half a cup during weekly 10% water change. Note: the more baking soda you add the higher the KH will go but the PH will remain at 8

    17. #17
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by SanfordLopez View Post
      PH at 6.8 may be a little low if you get rain which may bring PH down. I use regular baking soda in my pond. It keeps the PH at exactly 8 and my KH I keep at about 140. I add baking soda every week approx half a cup during weekly 10% water change. Note: the more baking soda you add the higher the KH will go but the PH will remain at 8
      It seems only the new fish died.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    18. #18
      Vaul is offline Junior Member
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      Plenty of aeration, beside 2 outlets from the sump causing a waterfall effect, the internal filter has a 10 foot long spray bar shooting water into the pond every 6 inch...it sounds like it’s raining from inside the house.

    19. #19
      Vaul is offline Junior Member
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      All the new fish died and now, the older ones are dying, lost 2 so far...

      I’ve checked with the farm that I got my doitsu from, they claim no issues. Hard to believe when I paid a pretty decent amount for the fishes I got from them, that they’d be truthful. Fish I got from LFS and farm in Damansara were ok for more than a month. Well, no use blaming others, I should have medicated during quarantine.

      Anyways, I dint have to do a scrape test because as soon as I caught one of the fish not doing so good, I found lice on it’s body. I don’t get how I missed them on all other dead fishes. So, I’m gonna start lice medication later today. Any recommendations besides ocean free lice meds and S1?

    20. #20
      ademink's Avatar
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      I use Dimilin-X medication but I'm unsure of what is available in your area.

      In my experience, fish lice do not cause fast die-offs of ponds. Admittedly I haven't had a lot of experience with lice so perhaps others who have can speak to whether I am correct or not. Fish lice are easily visible to the eye so it seems you would have seen them on the other fish.

      I lean heavily toward Marilyn's words earlier in this thread pointing toward a water quality issue w/ such a small amount of water and large fish load.
      Andrea
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