• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 17 of 17

    Thread: Fish flashing during water changes.

    1. #1
      drodz is offline Junior Member
      is Loving my KOI
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Location
      TX
      Posts
      25

      Fish flashing during water changes.

      Hi all,

      I have a 2,300 gallon pond and my fish are doing well until I start doing water changes. Some of the fish flash for a coupe of hours following a 10-15% water change. After a couple of hours they go back to normal.
      I always put a little more than the required amount of SAFE dechlorinator as I fill the pond with city water.

      I do 10-15% water changes every time I clean my filters since I have a DIY 55-gallon system that pretty much takes 200-300 gallons to clean. Iím cleaning the filters 2-3 times a week because Iím feeding heavy.

      My system has two circuits
      1- BD>ST>Static Bio Balls filter>MBBR>pump>Waterfall with more bioballs>pond
      2- Skimmer>pump>S&G drum>pond

      UV light is inside the Settlement tank on circuit 1.

      Water:
      pH: 8.4 steady
      Ammonia- 0.25
      Nitrites- 0
      Nitrates- 80ppm (canít bring it down even with all the water changes so I cut back on the feeding)
      kH- 7 drops

      Thanks

    2. #2
      Nguyen365's Avatar
      Nguyen365 is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2018
      Location
      Bakersfield ca
      Posts
      1,555
      1. Are you dosing the correct amount of seachem safe per you pond gallon size? I always put in extra teaspoons cant overdose.
      2. Are you putting the city water first into the filtration and not directly into the pond (if they're flashing then gills are being burned l)

      Cheers mate

    3. #3
      graybird's Avatar
      graybird is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      San Rafael, CA
      Posts
      1,741
      I would first test your tap water for all the parameters you have tested your pond for. Sometimes the city water has high levels of ammonia from treatments -- do you know if your area treats with chloramine or with chlorine? Also, given that you are in Texas, what is the difference in temperature between your pond water and your hose water?
      Mary

    4. #4
      drodz is offline Junior Member
      is Loving my KOI
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Location
      TX
      Posts
      25
      Hi,

      City water comes out just 2-3 degrees cooler than pond water temperature. With only 10-15% water change, it doesn’t really affect the pond temperature. City water ammonia is 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0, pH 7. So I would have to suspect a sudden pH difference might be causing the discomfort.

      Anyone else have any ideas???

      Thanks,

      Dennis

    5. #5
      Marilyn's Avatar
      Marilyn is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      happy in the Heartland! 46071
      Posts
      16,802
      It sounds like a pH fluctuation. If the city was has a pH of 7, and your pond is properly buffered, they there is likely a pH drop with the addition of new water.

      Flashing is a reaction to an irritant. Because this is happening in relation to water changes, you can rule out parasites as the irritant. That leaves something in the water is triggering the irritation. Since you're properly treating for chlorine or chloramines and the addition is small enough not to affect the water temp, pH sounds like the likeliest factor.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    6. #6
      drodz is offline Junior Member
      is Loving my KOI
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Location
      TX
      Posts
      25
      Marilyn,

      I think it has to be pH related. I did a filter clean/water change this morning and this time I filled the settlement tank with city water, added Seachem SAFE and added 2 cups of baking soda. That only raised the pH in the 55-gallon drum from 7 to about 7.8. I then released that “new” water to the pond and watched. Only 2 fish flashed. I then topped off the pond with more city water, adding more Seachem SAFE but no additional baking soda and 5-6 fish started the flashing.

      So... if its pH related, how do I fix the issue? Should I add 4-5 cups of baking soda with every 10% water change? That’s going to be a LOT of baking soda I need to put in.

      Thanks for your help.

    7. #7
      drodz is offline Junior Member
      is Loving my KOI
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Location
      TX
      Posts
      25
      I also noticed that instead of flashing for 2-3 hours after the water change, this time that I added the 2 cups of baking soda, they only flashed for less than an hour. They are already back to normal. I think this confirms that the flashing is pH related. My Kh this morning BEFORE the water change was at 8 drops so I really don’t understand why the pH is bothering the fish if kH should be buffering fine.

      I guess I’ll have to buy massive amounts of baking soda and add a lot every time I clean my filters and add city water.

    8. #8
      rizzag is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2017
      Location
      Oregon
      Posts
      34
      I'm curious why the PH from your tap is so different than the PH of your pond? Are you adding anything in the pond to raise the PH?

      My pond hovers between 8.2 and 8.4 (with an 8 drop KH). And that is identical to my tap water that I use to fill and do water changes on my pond.

    9. #9
      Marilyn's Avatar
      Marilyn is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      happy in the Heartland! 46071
      Posts
      16,802
      Quote Originally Posted by drodz View Post
      ... I guess I’ll have to buy massive amounts of baking soda and add a lot every time I clean my filters and add city water.
      If your source water doesn't have adequate KH then yes you do. Check Costco and big box stores for a cheaper source than a supermarket. The alternative of not doing so is not pretty.

      Quote Originally Posted by rizzag View Post
      I'm curious why the PH from your tap is so different than the PH of your pond? Are you adding anything in the pond to raise the PH?

      My pond hovers between 8.2 and 8.4 (with an 8 drop KH). And that is identical to my tap water that I use to fill and do water changes on my pond.
      He's adding baking soda, by the sounds of it.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    10. #10
      drodz is offline Junior Member
      is Loving my KOI
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Location
      TX
      Posts
      25
      Quote Originally Posted by rizzag View Post
      I'm curious why the PH from your tap is so different than the PH of your pond? Are you adding anything in the pond to raise the PH?

      My pond hovers between 8.2 and 8.4 (with an 8 drop KH). And that is identical to my tap water that I use to fill and do water changes on my pond.
      My tap water is pH-7 and kH is 7 drops. I add baking soda to the pond to raise the kH to 9-10 drops and the side effect is raised pH to 8.4 very steady. So now when I do water changes I will have to keep adding baking soda to raise the pH to about 8.4 and keep the Koi from flashing.

      An alternative I’m seriously considering is slowly bring the kH down to 7 drops (by not adding any more baking soda) and let the pH come closer to 7 like my tap water. Then monitor morning and evening pH and make sure I don’t have any pH swings. That is probably my fall experiment. It’s so hot right now I’ll keep doing regular water changes as often as I can.

    11. #11
      Marilyn's Avatar
      Marilyn is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      happy in the Heartland! 46071
      Posts
      16,802
      If your source water has a KH reading of 7, then something isn't adding up.

      Are you on a well? If yes, are you aerating the water in any way before adding it to the pond?

      Btw, I would not lower the pond KH reading. You're setting yourself up to have a pH crash in doing so. I couldn't sign on the forum without dealing with someone that was going through a pH crash for a while. It's much better to have properly buffered water for biological activity and fish health.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    12. #12
      drodz is offline Junior Member
      is Loving my KOI
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Location
      TX
      Posts
      25
      Marilyn,

      I’m on city water. Can you explain when you say “something isn’t adding up”? I want to learn what you see is not right.

      Thanks,

    13. #13
      Marilyn's Avatar
      Marilyn is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      happy in the Heartland! 46071
      Posts
      16,802
      No problem, I'll do the best I can.

      As you've noted, when you add baking soda to your pond and you bring it up to say, 7 drops, the pH typically will be right around 8.2ish. If you're source/city water has a KH reading of 7 drops, I would expect to see the pH in the same range.

      There are a couple of things I would do to verify the results. Check to make sure your KH kit is still viable. I've never had a problem with them going bad but just in case. The next thing I would do is aerate the source water and then test the pH again. There are other things that factor into the pH value and I know low air can influence it.
      If it is as simple as aerating it to bring the pH up then all you would have to do is make sure to aerate the city water going into the pond to minimize the pH discrepancy. With a hose, just put a nozzle on it with a spray function.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    14. #14
      KOIAnon is online now Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2018
      Location
      Area 57
      Posts
      24
      Were you dosing at the 1 mg/L or 1/4 teaspoon per 300 gal rate? I found you have to put in a lot more than the recommended amount of Safe.

      I tested it in my aquariums' water change barrel. Under highly ideal conditions (a generous 30 min reaction time, heaters, and a mixing pump), the recommended dose of Safe was only able to neutralize 0.515 mg/L chloramine as total chlorine. Nationwide average is 2-2.5 mg/L...

      Name:  Safe not safe.jpg
Views: 40
Size:  20.8 KB

    15. #15
      drodz is offline Junior Member
      is Loving my KOI
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Location
      TX
      Posts
      25
      So basically I have to multiply times 5 the recommended dosage?? So 1-1/4 teaspoons per 300gal???

    16. #16
      KOIAnon is online now Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2018
      Location
      Area 57
      Posts
      24
      Quote Originally Posted by drodz View Post
      So basically I have to multiply times 5 the recommended dosage?? So 1-1/4 teaspoons per 300gal???
      I usually recommend using at least 6X more to match Prime, which neutralizes 3.22 mg/L at the recommended dose.

    17. #17
      drodz is offline Junior Member
      is Loving my KOI
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2018
      Location
      TX
      Posts
      25
      KOIAnon,

      You got me thinking here... I think Seachem's recommended dosing is what is causing the flashing. Here's why...

      Today we got a big storm come though Houston. I knew my aboveground pond would overflow from all the water that we were expecting. I decided to empty about 15% of the pond and let it fill back up with the rain water. So when it started raining I decided to do a complete parameters test on the water falling from the sky (not the pond water). The rain water had a pH of 6.49 which is less than my tap water. I let the pond fill with rain water and I had baking soda at hand in case I noticed any fish flashing from my previous theory of abrupt pH swing due to added water being more acidic.

      To my surprise non of the fish felt any discomfort from the low pH water being added by mother nature. The rainwater also had 0 kH and 7ppm TDS so this is very different water than the fish are used to and none flashed even once.

      So that kind-of rules out everything except the chlorine/chloramines that apparently are not being neutralized by the recommended Seachem SAFE dosing when I do my regular water changes with city water. Next water change I will 6x the dosing and will report back any results.

      Thanks for this information @KOIAnon

      Dennis

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •