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    Thread: Otsuka Asagi tosai

    1. #1
      nishikigoi21's Avatar
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      Otsuka Asagi tosai

      I was looking through the 4/$100 tanks full of Otsuka tosai and these 3 Asagi caught my eye. I've never seen Asagi tosai this white...generally the ones I've seen let go from the breeder as tosai were quite dark.

      My question is, will the lightest one in this picture have any potential of developing a nice reticulation? I can sort of see the scales coming up but it's very grainy.

      And regarding motoaka & cheek "blushing" on Asagi...if it's uneven as a tosai(like all of these), will it generally stay like that? I thought it was best to select one with red pectoral fins and watch it pull back, instead of getting clear ones and crossing fingers that it'll develop motoaka.
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    2. #2
      Mes's Avatar
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      I've heard and seen that the motoaka doesn't generally develop later in life. The red can pull back, but doesn't usually appear where it wasn't before. Generally you also want both pectoral fins to start with motoaka well.

    3. #3
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Shoichi Hosokai told me that his best Asagi never got Beni until they were four years old.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mes View Post
      I've heard and seen that the motoaka doesn't generally develop later in life. The red can pull back, but doesn't usually appear where it wasn't before. Generally you also want both pectoral fins to start with motoaka well.
      I am curious as to who is telling you this as it is contrary to what I was taught in Japan.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      I am curious as to who is telling you this as it is contrary to what I was taught in Japan.
      I've just seen it around, comments, guides, and even forum posts here and there. I've heard that its generally the case, not always. However, if this is wrong, I will correct my perspective. Although I must ask, how often does it come? Is it genetic?

    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      Shoichi Hosokai told me that his best Asagi never got Beni until they were four years old.
      Does that mean all of his tategoi have absolutely zero orange coloration?
      But that's just a rule that applies to his bloodline and not all Asagi in general right? Because I know an 8 year old Asagi that has yet to develop ANY beni and I doubt that it ever will at this point...
      It seems like a risk to invest time in an Asagi that only "might" develop beni; unless there are promising pointers out there to look for in tosai/nisai.

      And just to remind you these are Otsuka Asagi...but come to think of it doesn't/didn't Otsuka use Hosokai bloodline...or was it the other way around?

      And also the problem with a tategoi-type Asagi is that I fear in our hard water, by the time the color starts to develop, the reticulation will get dark & dirty.

    7. #7
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nishikigoi21 View Post
      Does that mean all of his tategoi have absolutely zero orange coloration?
      No, of course not, only his very best
      But that's just a rule that applies to his bloodline and not all Asagi in general right? Because I know an 8 year old Asagi that has yet to develop ANY beni and I doubt that it ever will at this point...It probably is only for his but that 8 year old Asagi may not have been a very good fish to start with.
      It seems like a risk to invest time in an Asagi that only "might" develop beni;You should always do what you think is best, I just don't agree. unless there are promising pointers out there to look for in tosai/nisai.There are always things to look for.

      And just to remind you these are Otsuka Asagi...but come to think of it doesn't/didn't Otsuka use Hosokai bloodline...or was it the other way around?Otsuka are Hosokai Asagi.

      And also the problem with a tategoi-type Asagi is that I fear in our hard water, by the time the color starts to develop, the reticulation will get dark & dirty.I have not had this experience.
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      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    8. #8
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mes View Post
      I've just seen it around, comments, guides, and even forum posts here and there. I've heard that its generally the case, not always. However, if this is wrong, I will correct my perspective. Although I must ask, how often does it come? Is it genetic?
      This is a tricky situation as many Koi that are sold as tategoi really aren't so, when they don't develop, people think it is al;ways the way it is. Many dealers buy Koi from top breeders but buy at a much lower level and then pass them off as high quality Koi. On better quality Koi it will come and it is genetic.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      This is a tricky situation as many Koi that are sold as tategoi really aren't so, when they don't develop, people think it is al;ways the way it is. Many dealers buy Koi from top breeders but buy at a much lower level and then pass them off as high quality Koi. On better quality Koi it will come and it is genetic.
      Thanks for the explanation.

    10. #10
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      So Russell, what are we supposed to look for in Asagi tosai?

      I saw this one today but does it have potential on developing proper Asagi beni where it's supposed to? I do like the very light netting and clean head(a little yellow though?), but with the little knowledge I currently have, I'd be much more comfortable if this one had completely red pectoral fins...
      A tiny bit on the cheek wouldn't hurt either...or would it?

      FYI this one could be from the Hosokai shipment as it was a few inches larger than the Otsuka trio...although I guess it really wouldn't matter in this case.
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