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  • Results 1 to 9 of 9

    Thread: Kois worse after 2 prazi treatments

    1. #1
      Yonghui90 is offline Junior Member
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      Kois worse after 2 prazi treatments

      Hi everyone! This is my first post and i am very thankful for this amazing forum as i have learnt so much reading the forums during my 8 months of koi-keeping. Unfortunately I am currently having some problems with my favourite sanke and i hope you guys can offer me some insights!

      Firstly, here are my pond parameters:

      Water volume : 8000 gallons
      Ammonia 0
      Nitrite 0
      Nitrate 20
      Ph 8.0 -8.2
      Kh 90ppm
      Temperature - 26-27 degree celcius

      The reason i started the prazi treatment in the first place was because 3 out of my 16 kois were flashing from time to time and one of them likes to jump and gulp. Otherwise they were all behaving normally and eating well. I should mention that i have done 3 pp treatments back in May when i added a new fish ( i heard PP is less effective towards flukes/lice/anchor worms)

      I will include most of my observations leading up to the sick fish as i know every little details is important

      July 5
      Praziquantel 80 grams and UV light turned off
      Some fishes were flashing after the treatment
      Heavy foaming is observed

      July 9
      20 % Water change with dechlorinator

      July 10
      2 kois were flashing after afternoon feed
      Evening second dose of Prazi at 100 grams

      July 12
      Sanke has a reddish spiderweb like spot on shiroji under the dorsal fin and was less hungry , he is usually the most active and aggressive feeder in the pond!

      From July 12-15 i was out on a business trip so my mother took over the feedings

      July 15
      I returned at night and saw that the Sanke had gotten worse. The reddish spot was bigger, skin looks rough, and he was flashing and yawning very aggressively, he was also started to clamp his fins.
      Other fishes were yawning too but otherwise look normal
      Immediately did a 10% Water change and filter cleaning

      July 16
      Salted to 0.50% based on dealer's advice
      After that, A few of the fishes started gulping and yawning . I noticed some twitching fins and head shaking by the other kois
      The Sanke is still swimming around and flashing
      Stopped feeding

      July 17
      Did a 2ppm PP treatment in the evening
      Pp stayed purple for 2 hrs
      Sanke got noticeably worse as he is mostly clamping and resting at the bottom

      July 18
      20% water change in morning
      No improvement on the Sanke
      Other fishes behaved normally


      July 19
      Salinity 0.40
      Second dose of 2ppm PP treatment in the early morning
      Purple Lasted 3 hrs this time


      Any idea what might have caused this? It is my first time using prazi and i had the impression that it was supposed to be a very gentle treatment but this is starting to be a nightmare

      Also my pond has been foaming like crazy after the prazi and the salt made it worse. I am guessing it is normal?

      Any help and advise is very much appreciated

      Thank you!

      Below is a video taken of the sanke when on July 16th
      https://youtu.be/7s3_Wu-h0ik
      Attached Images Attached Images    

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    2. #2
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      I will be frank and say PP is not my favorite treatment for parasites. I prefer MG/F mixtures (ProformC, Terminate) which will take care of the bulk of parasites and FlukeM for flukes.

      If you don't have access to a microscope to determine which parasite you are dealing with, you could do what we call a shotgun treatment. The problem is your salt level it too high currently.
      The FlukeM would be okay at that salt level. I don't like to use MG/F above .1 reading. I know someone that treat with MG/F and .3 salt and lost fish.

      FlukeM is flubendazole which is my go to for flukes, hexamita and internal parasites. About 5-6 years ago I began looking for something other than Prazi as it simply was not working for me against flukes. Flubendazole works through adsorption of the fish's skin whereas my understanding is that Prazi needs to be ingested. In any case, I have had much better luck using FlukeM to get rid of flukes than I did with Prazi.

      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    3. #3
      ademink's Avatar
      ademink is offline Senior Member~~Moderator
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      Just adding my two cents that I also have changed to Fluke-M with much better results.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member

    4. #4
      Yonghui90 is offline Junior Member
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      Thanks for the reply guys! I really appreciate it

      I tried looking for fluke M here in Malaysia but they do not sell it. Even the prazi i got was from the states (Ebay seller)

      After recommendation from the dealer i have used 1G/1000 liters of dimilin and 0.5G / 1000 liters of masoten (trichlorofon) and i am finally starting to see some improvements with the sanke. It is more active and much lesser clamped fins. Even though i still see it flashing

      Now i am just hoping the PP treatments earlier brought the protozoan parasites to a minimum!

    5. #5
      Yonghui90 is offline Junior Member
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      I uploaded 2 videos taken yesterday morning before the dimilin/masoten treatments. I could tell the face of the sanke was looking very weird with some discolorations , the eyes was not looking normal too?

      I uploaded 2 videos to see if anybody could chime in?

      https://youtu.be/p2HYPMmCcWE

      https://youtu.be/_Q5A85O31vc

    6. #6
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC President
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      If you could get Prazi, here's a couple of links to Fluke M in the States to try too:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...uke-M-For-Sale

      http://www.lagunakoi.com/Fluke-Treat...-GM-p-618.html

      --Steve



      Koiphen 2021 Koi Person of the Year!

    7. #7
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      As I mentioned previously, I don't use PP for parasites. Other medications are more effective and less aggressive. She could have gone through a hotspot of PP, meaning where it was not mixed in well with the other water.
      As with any medication, aerate well during treatments to minimize the risk of hotspots. Keep the air going for her. It could have damaged her gills and breathing may be difficult.

      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    8. #8
      Yonghui90 is offline Junior Member
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      Thank you for the reply guys! Some update on the Kois. The masoten and dimlin seems to have solved the parasite problems as there are no more flashing/clamped fins/ etc.

      The sanke is also alot more active except the face is looking like it is BRUISED? I don't know any other word to describe it. Now that the water is clearer i can also see some fin rot but i think it is healing.

      Now it looks like the Tancho sanke's face is getting WEIRDER? There seems to be some dark red pimples on it or something. Could somebody identify it from the pictures? I can also see some brownish spiderweb veins on the body but it is faint

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    9. #9
      Yonghui90 is offline Junior Member
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      Anybody can help diagnose?
      I am wondering it it is internal bacteria

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