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  • Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
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    Thread: Thick red tail and fins. Spreading!

    1. #61
      PRIDEANDKOI is offline Member
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      Thank you Rich and Marilyn for your responses. GOOD NEWS!!!!! The medications you recommended seem to be working!!!! Smaller new to the pond koi who was floating when I got home yesterday is out of hiding for the first time since I put it into the pond and is swimming this morning!! My larger koi who has been sick is also swimming also and is not clamping it's right side fin any longer!!! I am so relieved. Here's what I did. In a pinch I did the best calculations I could and also used Marilyn's calculations and calculator and I treated for 4500 gallons with both the Fluke M and the ProFormC. I added them slowly over about an hour+ and dropped small amounts in all around the perimeter of the pond where I could see the water bubbling hard. I added the return jet back to the pond way above the water level to create more air and water movement. I can't thank you enough for the recommendations and help regarding treatment and getting my pond healthy. I feel like I've learned and am learning so much from this forum (what is it they say about hard lessons). I have some pictures to share, which I will post later. Two of my larger fish got themselves behind the fencing I have been using to try and keep them out of my lilies and this allowed me to get a good look at them. One of my koi has two sores, one by the tail one on its opposite side midsection. I wasn't able to get a picture of because he found his way out of the netting by the time I grabbed my camera. They don't look bloody or gaping but they're definitely not normal. I got some really really good photos of my large koi who has been sick and the spot on top of its head. I'll post them later so maybe you can identify and this will help others too.

      Anyway, I still have a few questions:

      1. It seems that the fish are responding to the meds so what is the protocol for how to treat from this point forward. I have a 7 day treatment plan from the distributor but I would really like other advice from you as well.

      2. What about water changes? The instructions on the ProformC state that I should change minimally 25% of the water in my pond each time I add the medication. If I should add more meds, do I really need to pull 1000 gallons plus out of my pond again each time I add meds? I just put that water in! Ugh. My water bill is going to be a killer this month!

      3. I am going to order the salinity meter as suggested. If I salt the pond, will this kill my plants. I really really don't want to lose all of my plantings.

      4. If I am ok to salt am I also doing this because salting is recommended for health of the koi or am I just doing a one time shot to get accurate readings for the number of gallons in the pond? or both? If I do salt, should I wait, and how long, after the medication treatments. I'm sure there are a million posts on salting vs. not salting for health. Can you point me to a good one to read that you like.

      I hope everyone has a great day! I know mine will be a lot better today!!! Off to work to pay for these dang fish
      Last edited by PRIDEANDKOI; 07-19-2019 at 07:55 AM.

    2. #62
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      I'm glad they have improved, great news!

      1. Each medication should have dosing protocol on the package.

      2. I personally would do the water changes, especially since you have a gravel bottom pond and we don't know for sure how many gallons you have.

      3 &4. The only reason for the salt is to get an accurate measure of your gallons. You currently may be over or under dosing, we just don't know and are estimating gallons.
      I'm not sure on the plants but imagine some may be more sensitive to salt than others. The amount you're adding is quite low if we're close to how many gallons you actually have.

      I'm not quite sure what you're asking for about a salt debate. None of the health advisors here encourage keeping salt in the pond. It can be helpful at specific times:

      - as part of a treatment (the other part would be a medicine for bacterial issues)
      - to protect koi from nitrite poisoning (brown blood disease)
      - to measure the volume of a pond

      HTH
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    3. #63
      PRIDEANDKOI is offline Member
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      Happy to report that the fish still seem to be doing well and are getting better everyday. Whew! I want to post the pics of the spot on my larger koi who was sick and see if anyone can identify what it may be. I hope this can help me and others if it ever comes up again. The spot that I'm looking at is right below the head. White and is not raised. looks as though skin is missing in that area. Name:  20190718_184450_resized.jpg
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      I wanted to add a video of what the aeration looks like in the pond when I have pump running that supplies the airline around the perimeter, but I can't figure out how to do it. Also, I am just wondering , now that the salt meter has arrived also, should I still do the test to measure the pond volume and get an exact number of gallons once the pond is full? If so, how long should I wait to do the test after the last dose of meds has been added?

    4. #64
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by PRIDEANDKOI View Post
      I wanted to add a video of what the aeration looks like in the pond when I have pump running that supplies the airline around the perimeter, but I can't figure out how to do it. Also, I am just wondering , now that the salt meter has arrived also, should I still do the test to measure the pond volume and get an exact number of gallons once the pond is full? If so, how long should I wait to do the test after the last dose of meds has been added?
      It needs to be uploaded to a host site like YouTube or Vimeo... then you can post a link to the video
      on the forum. If you don't have an account on them and it's not too large and you can email, you
      can send it to me at steve@icu2collectibles.com and I can post it for you. If you can't email, let me
      know and I can email you a request to send me the file via Dropbox.
      --Steve
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      Who knows what the tide could bring." --Tom Hanks in Cast Away

    5. #65
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      Personally, I would go ahead and determine the actual volume. That level of salt should not affect the continued treatment of the fish and will definitely improve the knowledge base of treatment dosages. Some of the meds that are used are very sensitive to the volume of the pond, and some are just expensive and increased dosages are hard on the wallet. Proform C can be dosed at up to about 30% higher than label without killing fish, while meds like Prazi are just expensive and a double dose will not hurt the fish, but puts a damper on the wallet.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    6. #66
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      I agree with Rich, get the pond total calculated.

      Regarding this koi, from the pics it looks like a scrape or gouge into the Beni. If you have rocks overhanging the pond they can run into during a feeding frenzy or something like that. I had a back experience with a very nice koi running into the capstone on the top of my pond and she broke her back. I wish I could remember who said this, koi are like kids. They can and will hurt themselves on all kinds of things.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    7. #67
      PRIDEANDKOI is offline Member
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      UPDATE. NITRATE SPIKE.

      Hi Everyone. Thanks for the advice and responses.

      I have been testing and re-testing the water everyday, sometimes multiple times a day, as I add chemicals and meds. Have been keeping a log to help myself track what happens and when so, hopefully, I may be able to better understand the whats and whys of my pond better in the future. As you may note from my earlier posts, I just got the biological and bog filter back up and running about a week ago. Tonight I tested the water and got a NitrAte reading of what looks to me to be about 160 ppm. Name:  NITRATE 7-22-19.jpg
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      Ammonia is 0
      Nitrite is 0
      PH is 8.0
      KH is 100 (I added another 10 ozs to the water tonight and will add another 10 in the morning).

      All of the fish seem to be doing better. Except one. I have a beautiful Butterfly Goldfish (hope that's the correct name) that has been looking pretty beat up for a few weeks. I now think I may have incorrectly diagnosed her problems as spawning injuries because I saw her being chased around the pond and her wounds were on her sides. She showed up today with a big wound on her head too. Looks like she's been through the grinder. I can't catch her, I've tried. Pond is too deep and there are too many hiding places, including a 36x48 koi tunnel that is proving to be tricky to completely close off when trying to catch smaller fish. I'd love to treat her separately and more extensively, if needed. She seems to be keeping up with the rest of the fish currently, but is surely a bit more lethargic and looks slightly dropsy-ish.

      Because the biological filter and bog have only been back up and running for about a week I know the NitrAte spike is to be expected, right? Salt is supposed to help protect from high NitrAtes, correct? Should I adjust the amount being added to account for this spike or is the 40lbs suggested for measuring salinity sufficient to help with high Nitrates as well?

      I have also noticed some fleshy colored floating poo everyday. Not tons, but noticeable.

      Thanks again everyone! Another evening spent worrying about my fish. So much to learn!







      Anbyway,

    8. #68
      PRIDEANDKOI is offline Member
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      Thank you!! I will email you. I really appreciate the help. I don't have accounts with either youtube or Vimeo.

    9. #69
      PRIDEANDKOI is offline Member
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      Thank you Rich. I will add the salt. Please see my earlier post as I am now having a Nitrate spike. Would love to know how to adjust the salt level, if at all, based upon the elevated Nitrate levels.

    10. #70
      PRIDEANDKOI is offline Member
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      Thanks Marilyn! SO RIGHT. Koi are like clumsy little kids sometimes. Having one of your Koi break its back must have been awful!!! I have only ever had one of my koi die (thank goodness!!!!!!!) but I cried like a baby and had to have a friend help get it out of my pond. I will calculate total pond volume ASAP. Please advise re. Nitrate levels and salt or other treatments. Thanks a billion for your continued replies and help!!!!!

    11. #71
      Marilyn's Avatar
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      NitrAtes are the final step in the nitrogen cycle. It's undesirable to have them over 100ppm but it is not life threatening. The spike that can kill is the nitrIte spike. We use salt for nitrItes.

      The good news is your pond is completing the entire nitrogen cycle, meaning it is processing the ammonia and nitrite, the bad news is the level of nitrate. The two ways to reduce nitrate would be water changes and plants so the bog filter will likely reduce them.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    12. #72
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      Quote Originally Posted by PRIDEANDKOI View Post
      I totally get what everyone is saying about the gravel bottom and we did a lot of research before deciding to invest in our current system. We heard a lot of talking against the gravel bottom. There were just as many voices who say it works very well, when it's done properly, and who love the system, again, if it is correctly set up. I'm definitely no expert either way. What I do know is that the filtration under the gravel is suction, not up flow, and is extensive. There is a main 2" trunk line with 2" arms every 12" that extend across the width of the pond and suck water and debris back to the bio filter. The gravel is very specifically smooth 3/4" river jack. The entire volume of the pond, plus some, is sucked through this system every hour. There is also a 1" flexible PVC air hose that pumps 90 ml of air behind all of the stones on the sides of the pond around the entire perimeter, except in front of the skimmer, to flush out debris that may get trapped behind there. The water runs from the under gravel system to a manifold which pumps it out on one side to a waterfall bio-filter filled with k-2 media which has it's own air supply to promote the growth of beneficial bacteria and on the other side to a bog stocked with plants. The bog has 12" of pea gravel and the same filter design as the main pond, except that it's up flow. It returns to the pond through another waterfall. There is also a skimmer system on 3" pipe that pumps 8,600 gallons per hour through the skimmer and returns both waterfalls also (mainly for effect as the falls are quite wide). I have plumbed the pond so that if I need to add additional filtration both the 2" and 3" manifolds have an additional capped line that could be opened to run water to additional filters as needed. e also run a 110V UV light. I'm absolutely always interested in additional opinions on this system, as always. The system was generally designed and inspired by a system in the Helix Design Guide and also by a professional installer with a lot of experience (Eric and Leslie Triplett of the Pond Digger) so I feel pretty confident in the design. We also had a weigh in from an editor of a pond magazine who has had this pond design in his own personal for over a decade and said it is virtually maintenance free. Nate from Practical Garden Ponds also installed the same pond design in his personal home. They all know WAY MORE than I do, so I went with it. I guess only time (and water tests) will tell if it's going to work out and is as well as it is reported to. We'll cross that bridge when and if we come to it. If I were to add filtration, what are you recommending for the anaerobic bacteria component that I seem to be missing, if I'm correct in that assumption?
      Could you clarify - the pond was inspired by the design of Eric Triplett or installed by him? He's in CA, but will make special trips for installations, if you're willing to pay for the associated costs of travel (or so I hear). I'm a big fan of his YouTube channel, particularly the episodes with Shawn from Mystic Koi.

    13. #73
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      I see you are in the DC area... there is a koi shop in Catharpin, VA which carries the pond items listed above, and more. The drive may be quicker than waiting for an Amazon fulfillment.

      I am not sure if I can post the shops name on this forum, so I will leave it to you to discover.

      I'm hoping for a full recovery for your guys.
      Last edited by WhisperOGK; 07-23-2019 at 02:46 PM.

    14. #74
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      The shop that he is referring to is http://www.blueribbonkoi.com/ and http://www.viennaaquariumandpets.com/ is in Leesburg. You may want to check both out.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    15. #75
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      Quote Originally Posted by WhisperOGK View Post
      Could you clarify - the pond was inspired by the design of Eric Triplett or installed by him? He's in CA, but will make special trips for installations, if you're willing to pay for the associated costs of travel (or so I hear). I'm a big fan of his YouTube channel, particularly the episodes with Shawn from Mystic Koi.
      The general pond design was mainly inspired by one of the plans that is in the Helix design guide. I also studied the Pond Digger videos obsessively! I then worked with Leslie, Eric's wife, on tweaking the design to fit my particular pond. I wish I could have hired them to actually do the install but there's no way I could afford to fly him and his crew and tools to the east coast. I also work with Nate from Practical Garden Ponds in PA and he has worked with Eric Triplett extensively and goes out to Eric's seminars California every year, along with other pond builders from around the country, to share information and work on pond builds. They are all very nice people and are willing to help and share information whenever needed. Obviously, there is some strong dissent about the under gravel filter system and it's effectiveness among the experts here on Koiphen so that's disappointing. I'm still pleased, thus far, with my build and am willing to do what's necessary down the road if my pond proves to need more maintenance that I had originally hoped for.

    16. #76
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      The shop that he is referring to is http://www.blueribbonkoi.com/ and http://www.viennaaquariumandpets.com/ is in Leesburg. You may want to check both out.
      Thank you Rich. I will check them both out!

    17. #77
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      Hello Everyone. New issue/question. I tried to start a new post as I don't think this is an emergency, but I cant seem to figure out how to start a new post. Anyway, I went outside this evening to feed my fish and found this (photos attached) floating in the pond. I fished it out. It's smelly. It's about 100X bigger than a poop. Lost shape when out of water. Could it be vomit? Do Koi vomit? What the heck is this?!? I know the pics aren't great. Sorry. Name:  20190728_191824.jpg
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      Last edited by PRIDEANDKOI; 07-28-2019 at 08:18 PM.

    18. #78
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by PRIDEANDKOI View Post
      Hello Everyone. New issue/question. I tried to start a new post as I don't think this is an emergency, but I cant seem to figure out how to start a new post. Anyway, I went outside this evening to feed my fish and found this (photos attached) floating in the pond. I fished it out. It's smelly. It's about 100X bigger than a poop. Lost shape when out of water. Could it be vomit? Do Koi vomit? What the heck is this?!? I know the pics aren't great. Sorry.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...g-a-New-Thread
      --Steve
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      Who knows what the tide could bring." --Tom Hanks in Cast Away

    19. #79
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      It looks to be a long turd to me and when removed from the water it will collapse and lose shape, probably why it smells.. LOL.

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