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  • Results 1 to 12 of 12

    Thread: Pum for a retro bottom drain?

    1. #1
      mhackney is offline Junior Member
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      Pump for a retro bottom drain?

      When I built my pond (~800 gallons) 5 years ago I covered the bottom with pea gravel and had suboptimal filtration. This spring I decided to remove everything and go clean liner. My 8 Koi were placed in a large kiddie pool with water pumped from the pond. They seemed quite happy. I spent 2 days removing the gravel and sub water level rocks and power washed everything below water line to clean off algae, etc. It was tough work but worth it. Prior to the process I researched and decided to install a retro bottom drain (2" Aquadyne), UV filter and retro skimmer (Oase). Also adding a Matala 7" Disc with a Matala air pump to replace the a "ball aerator". I was not able to complete the skimmer install yet because the skimmer was just about 1" too tall for the area I wanted to place it (which has easy access to remove the basket).

      I am using my original canister filter (AniMate 3000 gph bio filter) with bio balls and a 16" Beckett waterfall box with additional bioball filtration. The UV filter is inline between the canister and waterfall box. My plan was to feed the canister with the outlet from the RBD with Aquascape 1000GPH pump (the one that looks like a turtle). It is an asynchronous "solids handling" pump. I connected the Aquascape to the Aquadyne RDB with a short (12") length of 2" PVC.

      For completion: the skimmer will pump into one side of the waterfall box and the bio filter pumps into the other.

      I got everything assembled except the skimmer, filled off with treated water, let sit with filtration and aeration running for 30hrs for temperature to equilibrate and relocated the Koi. It has been 3 weeks since doing this. Koi are all happy as, well, Koi. The water has remained crystal clear and like everyone here asserts, you don't notice the liner! In fact, the extra aeration and water fall flow ripples the surface enough that the bottom simply looks black and the KOI pop out. I'm quite happy with that.

      I was planning to install the modified skimmer (I designed and 3D printed a splice ring and cut the skimmer tube to length and re-glued with the printed ring and epoxy) today when I noticed my waterfall was not running. Probably stopped Friday evening.

      I removed the pump and found a couple of last season dead maple leaves and 2 small pebbles jamming things up. I don't have any significant trees near my pond and these leaves likely blew in from some distance. They were brown and large so I know they were not this season's new leaves.

      So the question I have is, how do folks keep pumps that draw water via a RBF from pulling in large stuff like this? The pebbles could simply have fallen into the pond and found their way into the RBF. My research showed that many folks run their bottom filters into a siphon fed filter box and pump the water from that box. I do not have the space to do this and needed to use a more compact solution like the canister filter. Perhaps once the skimmer is installed, the chances of this happening again are lower as the skimmer might catch the leaves before they sink. I'd like to hear what others have done with "pressurize filtration" systems like mine in terms of bottom drains.

      Here's a photo from a week after the cleanout - I was plumbing in the piping for the skimmer. As you can see, the water is quite clear. You can see three small (5") Koi (the little yellow/black one is next to the large orange one). These were born in this pond last year. The large white between the two orange was born in the pond the second year.

      Thanks in advance,
      Michael
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Last edited by mhackney; 06-16-2019 at 03:16 PM.

    2. #2
      mhackney is offline Junior Member
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      I'm not sure why the photo is rotated, it should be oriented with the Koi looking at you!

    3. #3
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      Hereís my rhino reverse bottom drain install 2 2inch couplers. I will do full 2 inch ASAP but I want to upgrade my sieve to a curved sieve where I donít have rinse it daily. My weakest link is after the pump when itís down to 1.5 inch to the uv clarifier. Iím not ultilizing the 3850gph flow of my periha 16000 fully

      Iím thinking about moving the uv to the second oases 1900 circulation pump.
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      Last edited by Nguyen365; 06-16-2019 at 04:32 PM.

    4. #4
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      Thanks. My setup is very similar. The outlet on my pump is 1.5".

      I really wonder if I just got unlucky and sucked up a stray pebble.

    5. #5
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      This is how it sits in my pond
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    6. #6
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      I spray painted all of the white PVC with flat black Krylon and let it cure in the sun for 2 days. It hides nicely in the pond.

    7. #7
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      Algae will quickly overtake

    8. #8
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      I just went through this on my build, I used a Periha 20000 which has the 2" outlet to pull from a Retro Rhino 3" and teed that off to a pair of 1.5" lines going to a pair of 36w UV sterilizers then to a pair of filter boxes. Like mhackney I spray painted my periha pumps and all PVC flat black, made a huge difference. Like Nguyen said the weak link is the clarifiers, they are choking my 4500gph pump down to probably 1000-1500gph if I had to guess. Putting them on a dedicated lower volume pump would solve that problem.

      I would also caution you on your retro BD, that small white and small orange fish you have WILL be minced up in your BD pump. All three of my 3-4" fish found their way into my filter boxes after being minced into hundreds of pieces by the pump. I haven't had any issues with my BD pump pulling leaves or debris through, honestly you WANT it to be able to pull some good sized solid trash through. A 1000gph pump probably isn't going to pick up much through a 2" opening and that problem depends a lot on how far off or how close to the bottom your RBD is. Then again I'm running a 4500gph pump choked to 1500gph pulling through a 3" RBD and it's pulling off the bottom just fine so you'll probably be okay.

      A surface skimmer, even the OASE unit you are using (same one I use too) will keep nearly everything from reaching the bottom. You are going to want a fairly decent pump to pull that surface skimmer, the OASE surface skimmer loses surface suction pretty easily. You should be able to cut down the main upright pipe to get it where you want it, I had to cut mine three or four times before I finally found the right height.

      Best of luck and keep us posted!

    9. #9
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
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      Quote Originally Posted by mhackney View Post
      I'm not sure why the photo is rotated, it should be oriented with the Koi looking at you!
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...s-on-the-forum
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "I know what I have to do now. I got to keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise.
      Who knows what the tide could bring." --Tom Hanks in Cast Away

    10. #10
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mhackney View Post
      When I built my pond (~800 gallons) 5 years ago I covered the bottom with pea gravel and had suboptimal filtration. This spring I decided to remove everything and go clean liner. My 8 Koi were placed in a large kiddie pool with water pumped from the pond. They seemed quite happy. I spent 2 days removing the gravel and sub water level rocks and power washed everything below water line to clean off algae, etc. It was tough work but worth it. Prior to the process I researched and decided to install a retro bottom drain (2" Aquadyne), UV filter and retro skimmer (Oase). Also adding a Matala 7" Disc with a Matala air pump to replace the a "ball aerator". I was not able to complete the skimmer install yet because the skimmer was just about 1" too tall for the area I wanted to place it (which has easy access to remove the basket).

      I am using my original canister filter (AniMate 3000 gph bio filter) with bio balls and a 16" Beckett waterfall box with additional bioball filtration. The UV filter is inline between the canister and waterfall box. My plan was to feed the canister with the outlet from the RBD with Aquascape 1000GPH pump (the one that looks like a turtle). It is an asynchronous "solids handling" pump. I connected the Aquascape to the Aquadyne RDB with a short (12") length of 2" PVC.

      For completion: the skimmer will pump into one side of the waterfall box and the bio filter pumps into the other.

      I got everything assembled except the skimmer, filled off with treated water, let sit with filtration and aeration running for 30hrs for temperature to equilibrate and relocated the Koi. It has been 3 weeks since doing this. Koi are all happy as, well, Koi. The water has remained crystal clear and like everyone here asserts, you don't notice the liner! In fact, the extra aeration and water fall flow ripples the surface enough that the bottom simply looks black and the KOI pop out. I'm quite happy with that.

      I was planning to install the modified skimmer (I designed and 3D printed a splice ring and cut the skimmer tube to length and re-glued with the printed ring and epoxy) today when I noticed my waterfall was not running. Probably stopped Friday evening.

      I removed the pump and found a couple of last season dead maple leaves and 2 small pebbles jamming things up. I don't have any significant trees near my pond and these leaves likely blew in from some distance. They were brown and large so I know they were not this season's new leaves.

      So the question I have is, how do folks keep pumps that draw water via a RBF from pulling in large stuff like this? The pebbles could simply have fallen into the pond and found their way into the RBF. My research showed that many folks run their bottom filters into a siphon fed filter box and pump the water from that box. I do not have the space to do this and needed to use a more compact solution like the canister filter. Perhaps once the skimmer is installed, the chances of this happening again are lower as the skimmer might catch the leaves before they sink. I'd like to hear what others have done with "pressurize filtration" systems like mine in terms of bottom drains.

      Here's a photo from a week after the cleanout - I was plumbing in the piping for the skimmer. As you can see, the water is quite clear. You can see three small (5") Koi (the little yellow/black one is next to the large orange one). These were born in this pond last year. The large white between the two orange was born in the pond the second year.

      Thanks in advance,
      Michael
      Great job on the pond redo
      A priming pot before the pump should keep debris like pebbles and leaves out of the pump.

      http://www.cascade-pond-supply.com/E...rap-p-344.html
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "I know what I have to do now. I got to keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise.
      Who knows what the tide could bring." --Tom Hanks in Cast Away

    11. #11
      mhackney is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Great job on the pond redo
      A priming pot before the pump should keep debris like pebbles and leaves out of the pump.

      http://www.cascade-pond-supply.com/E...rap-p-344.html
      Thanks for the info. In my case, the pump is submersed and connected to the retro BF. The pump inlet and BF outlet align perfectly with each other. This device would require the pump to be elevated (assuming the inlet is the lower one). But more importantly, how often would this have to be cleaned out as that would require wading into the pond to retrieve it. I suppose I could go with an external pump and redo all of the plumbing I've done - also, there really isn't a lot of room or places to hide an external pump and one of these devices.

      The BF has about a 1/2" gap from the bottom so I don't think it will be an issue for the smaller Koi.

    12. #12
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
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      Never mind... I misunderstood and thought you had an external pump. The priming pot is designed
      for them and not submersible pumps.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "I know what I have to do now. I got to keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise.
      Who knows what the tide could bring." --Tom Hanks in Cast Away

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