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    Thread: Michigan New Pond Build

    1. #1
      MiPond is offline Member
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      Michigan New Pond Build

      Hi All,

      I would like to solicit some advice. I am currently building a new pond in my back yard. It should be between 2500 and 3000 gallons. I have a few questions. Should I use 2 tpr's on this setup, or can I get away with one? Is the skimmer in a good location? Do I need 2 BD's? What size should they be? Can I just use one air diffuser out of 2 BD's? Can one BD be 4" and the other 2" or 3"? Would you separate the skimmer and waterfall on its own pump, or run through my filtration system? If I separate the skimmer system should I use a bio waterfall? Otherwise, I was thinking of using a spillway diffuser. What are your opinions of the Pond Keeper 5000 unit for this project? Thanks for all the advice in advance.

      Keith
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    2. #2
      mplskoi is online now Supporting Member
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      I will jump in with a few thoughts:
      I don't know anything about the Pondkeeper 5000, but most commercially made filtration systems sold by commercial outfits end up underperforming. For 3000 gallons I would go with a sieve to two SG filters myself. SG (sand and gravel) filters can be made DIY and can flow about 2500 gallons each. You can probably build them for about 25-100 each. And pick up a decent sieve used (with the advent of RDF there are more traditional sieves available used). At she later date you could add a shower too. So sieve>SG>shower.

      Your pond shape is long and narrow enough you might consider pushing water the length of the pond rather than in the circular fashion that most do with a kidney shaped pond. Or better yet make the pond a little less long and a little more wide. If you do that then consider two BD's and I would go 4 inches on both. Or 3 on both, but wouldn't have them different size from each other.

      I think your skimmer is not well placed but maybe someone else can chime in on that.

    3. #3
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      Welcome and thanks for joining Koiphen!

      First, although I've never used the Pond Keeper 5000, I think you could do better for a price of $2500.

      I think your skimmer placement looks okay. The further away from the returning water is best but
      keeping in mind the prevailing winds will make it most efficient.

      Does your plan for your waterfall really cover 1/2 - 1/3 of the pond surface area? So 6 - 8 feet in width?

      For planning, an aerated 4" BD flowing 2500 - 3500gph should cover about 12' diameter and a 3" BD flowing
      1500-2500gph should cover about 10' diameter. I'd never use 2" BD's unless they're directly tied to a pump
      and no other options are available.
      You sure can use two different sizes but the important part to remember is it all needs work together. The flow
      amount needs to work with how much you'll be flowing to the filter(s). It all has to work as one... egress points
      from the pond equaling the flow rate of the filters, and the ingress points back to the pond.

      For tpr's I'd use at least 3. One place between the BD's pointed at the waterfall and two others on the opposite wall
      pointed the the other direction to create a rotation around each BD. Something like this:

      Name:  Image4.jpg
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      I'm with mplskoi that a sieve and sand and gravel filters would end up being cheaper than the Pond Keeper and
      work better in the long run.

      I look forward to watching your build and thanks again for joining Koiphen! Enjoy the forum!
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "I know what I have to do now. I got to keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise.
      Who knows what the tide could bring." --Tom Hanks in Cast Away

    4. #4
      CALHOUN is online now Senior Member
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      You might want to check out my pond build, similar in shape. I would agree with the last two post, seive would serve you much better. Depending on how much flow you think your going to have two skimmers would be nice. If you stay with one I would definitely put it down wind of the prevailing wind. I’m in Michigan also, liner pond?

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      Thanks, Calhoun, mplskoi, and icu2 for the advice very helpful. I need to figure out my liner size and order that soon. I enjoyed looking through your build Calhoun. I wish I had your budget. I would love an RDF but man they are expensive. I'll look into SG's DIY today.

      Anyone have a sieve for sale? and a pump? or suggestions on a pump I should buy for 2-3" BD with one skimmer. I do have a 275 gallon tote at my rental property I have been thinking about making into a huge bio filter at the top of the waterfall. Is this a good idea? I will send some pictures of the what i have done today and maybe I could get some suggestions of machanical layout.

    6. #6
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      I am not sure what to order at this point for mechanical. Does this look like a good safe order? (See Below). Also, I found a skimmer online. Would this be worth getting? (see Pic).Name:  First Amazon order for pond.jpg
Views: 466
Size:  77.7 KBName:  Skimmer.jpg
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Size:  98.6 KB

    7. #7
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      I agree with the advice from others. For the price of that Pond Keeper 5000 (which will be a disappointment), I'd put the money towards an RDF and go DIY for bio. That 275g tote would make one hell of a moving bed filter. Fill it up with as much K1-style media and you have more surface area than you'll ever need. You can certainly go DIY for mechanical too with S&G filters but you can't beat the efficiency and effectiveness of an RDF if your budget allows. You'll thank yourself in the long run.

    8. #8
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      And I would pass on that Hakko 25, go at least for the 40. I have the 25 and the output is really poor, even after changing out the diaphragms.

    9. #9
      mplskoi is online now Supporting Member
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      I also would pass on the Hakko 25. I think the skimmer is worthy purchase.
      IMHO it would be better if you do some more planning and sharing before much any purchasing. Refine your drawings a bit and keep them out in front of this community for feedback.
      You can sure start digging if you want, but the more planning and tweaking you do to your plans now the better things will be in the end. Consider adding a picture of your site for good feedback that way too. How will you hide your filtration?
      Also, as a fellow northerner, really think thru your winter plans. It is easy to design a pond that can function thru the warm weather. But what about when you have 4 months that you have to shut down portions of your filtration and plumbing? Will you cover this? How?

    10. #10
      MiPond is offline Member
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      Thanks for the advice. I prepped my wife for 2k on the filter, might be tough to move to 3.5K. Where is the best place to order the RDF?

    11. #11
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      Thanks for the advice. I prepped my wife for 2k on the filter, might be tough to move to 3.5K. Where is the best place to order the RDF?Name:  20190525_125144.jpg
Views: 457
Size:  187.3 KBName:  20190530_112333.jpg
Views: 461
Size:  210.1 KB

    12. #12
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      Probably got ahead of ourselves, but started digging over the past weekend. I would like to hide the filter (hopefully an RDF) behind the garage. So top left of the picture. For winterizing I am thinking it would be best to make a separate loop for the skimmer and waterfall. Not sure how to do that yet. I'll pick up the skimmer this coming weekend. I was thinking of just getting a pump in the skimmer unit and running to the waterfall. If someone would suggest a better way to setup skimmer to bio waterfall I'm all ears. Luckily so far my soil is all sand/clay and this picture was taken after a large rain overnight. the soil just eats up the water and no caving in of walls. Below I will post my next drawing.

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      Name:  20190530_142919.jpg
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    14. #14
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      So much space go bigger and deeper!!! Hakko 40 is good enough for 4000 gallon pond

    15. #15
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      For all the RDF I have seen in here, there are multiple inputs and outputs. I would run both BDs and skimmer to the RDF.

      What is your plan for filter? the common/popular ones you see in here are shower and moving bed (MB). I would do: BDs&skimmer ==> RDF ==> MB ==>pump (s) ==> waterfall&TPR. You can add a shower between pump&tpr.. You should add valves after pump so you can control flow, and on/off option for different seasons.

      hp.
      Last edited by hp; 05-30-2019 at 04:24 PM.

    16. #16
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      Maybe I missed it, but how deep is the pond going to be? I would recommend 4 depth at minimum. For my waterfall I have a wye split with valves on each leg. One goes to the waterfall and one goes to an underwater winter bypass. My skimmers go to an rdf then to a shower. I have the shower in a small insulated tea house that I put a space heater in when it gets cold. The skimmer return usually runs dow a 12 stream, but in the winter it gets diverted to insulated 4 pipes.
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    17. #17
      MiPond is offline Member
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      I picked up the skimmer over the weekend and ordered 2 x 3" BD's with a 25 x 30 45mil EPDM liner, and 3 tprs. I think the wife gave me the go-ahead to order the RDF (sweet). Can someone recommend a MB to add after the RDF? Glorial it is 4' deep. I was thinking of potentially making a MB. I would like the MB to be clean looking and smaller to fit next to the RDF. What is the smallest/reliable I could get away with? I wrote more questions on my next drawing below. Thanks for all the help. Name:  20190603_092342.jpg
Views: 355
Size:  78.0 KB

    18. #18
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      Pics of the new skimmer. Do I need to drill a new bulk head toward the bottom to gravity flow the skimmer? Or just run a pipe down towards the bottom of the skimmer? Also could i use brass valves for tprs and waterfall? They were free, but wondering how they will work for winter.

      Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

    19. #19
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      Name:  RDF and pump.jpg
Views: 335
Size:  106.2 KBName:  RDF and pump.jpg
Views: 335
Size:  106.2 KB I was considering this purchase next. 5% off right now. Not sure about pump (size and quality), but the price seems good when compaired to other sites.

    20. #20
      icu2's Avatar
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      A couple of observations...

      The pipe feeding the RDF from the skimmer should be 3" or 4". 2" is too small to gravity flow to the RDF.
      My guess on the skimmer bulkhead would be to just drill a new one in the bottom and block the existing ones
      if they're smaller than 3" or 4". You might be able to reuse one for an overflow.

      I can't tell what size those brass valves are but your tpr's should be at least 2" imo. 2" pvc ball valves are cheap:

      https://www.lowes.com/pd/AMERICAN-VA...lve/1000339525

      The RDF and moving bed would be placed at pond water level so their depth depends on that.
      Winter bypasses and plumbing depend on your winter temps. Hopefully some from your area of
      Michigan can chime in as to how they do theirs. I also don't know anything about the RDF or pump
      but hopefully others that may have used one or both can help. I made my own moving bed. Like a
      shower they should be pretty easy to DIY.

      Are you going to pour a concrete collar around the pond perimeter? It can add a lot of stability to the
      pond edge and avoid edges caving in.

      Great progress!
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "I know what I have to do now. I got to keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise.
      Who knows what the tide could bring." --Tom Hanks in Cast Away

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