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    Thread: May 2019: Dainichi Marin male Kohaku paired with Hasegawa female Kohaku

    1. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
      some of them are 3 to 4 times bigger than the rest, they are cannibals. Kind of makes me mad watching them bully the smaller ones.
      A net with appropriate sized holes can be used to catch the tobi while allowing the little ones to pass through. An adult koi net works good when they get the right size.

    2. #22
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      I ordered some spirulina powder from Walmart online website, they trying to be like Amazon. It was only $25 for 2lbs with free shipping. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Spirulina...ergy/356919727

      The fry on the surface doesn't seem to be eating the sinking rehydrated decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, so I started feeding them the brine shrimp eggs in its original dried form. It floats and I can visibly see them eating it. I was worried that they might get sick, but they seem to be liking it. I started feeding them four times a day instead of one time in the am. The spirulina powder should color them up, so I can cull them as soon as possible.

      At the rate that I started feeding them, I should use up my first 16oz container of decapsulated brine shrimp eggs within one month. I want to use up 5 containers before they get too big to eat it. Anyway at least it will give me an idea as to how much to order next time.
      Last edited by Roger; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:54 AM.

    3. #23
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      Toby Prison

      Today, I jumped in my 600 gal tank and caught the tobies. I ended up using my big koi net, although I vowed only to use fine mesh nets to prevent crippling their fins. Now that I think about it, only one of them got stuck trying to go through the net, but I managed to push him through, so I don't think it got hurt. After the stressful ordeal, I found four small dead ones floating on the surface. They are about three weeks old.

      The 100 gallon reservoir turned out to be a good place to put the tobies.


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      Last edited by Roger; 1 Week Ago at 05:24 PM.

    4. #24
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      Have u started culling yet?

    5. #25
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      You got a mess of them Rodger

      Keep up the good work



    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nguyen365 View Post
      Have u started culling yet?
      Their color has not condensed yet, so probably in the middle of July. I can see a few Kohaku developing in the toby tank, they are slightly transparent white with underlining pink, unlike the orange looking ones. However, I have seen the color on orange ones condense into kohaku before, so I need to give them time. This is the first week that I intensified their feeding amounts. I started off the 600 gal tank with just a table spoon of decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, increased to two, and leveled up to a handful 3 to 4 times a day.

      I just got the ones in the 300 gal tank used to eating the dried decapsulated brine shrimp on the surface, they were used to feeding on the bottom when I used to rehydrate the eggs before feeding them. Their feeding habit dictates how much I can feed them. When I see them hanging near the surface, I know they are looking for food. I also feed them spirulina and Tetra vitamin C enriched flakes to supplement their diet.
      Last edited by Roger; 1 Week Ago at 01:16 AM.

    7. #27
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      If you start popping out Grand champs please save me a 3 step Roger!

      Looking good!

    8. #28
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      Great photo in post #23 showing the size comparisons. Amazing the difference could get that big at this age. Glad you caught 'em early before they ate a few hundred more.

    9. #29
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      Looks like they started to grow a little faster in comparison to the first few weeks. The bellies on the fry in the 300 gal tank is finally filling up with food. I started cleaning the sponge filters in both tanks daily to keep up with the feeding rate. They are eating a scary amount of dried decapsulated brine shrimp eggs. It took about three weeks to use up the first one pound container, and in comparison, I will probably use up another container with in one week.

      The Tahitian taro plant is growing wild, in response to the increased load.

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      Last edited by Roger; 1 Week Ago at 01:14 AM.

    10. #30
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      Where's them fry pics?

    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
      Where's them fry pics?
      They frenzy feeding on the Tetra Gold fish flake coming from the toby tank.

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    12. #32
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      You gave me a good idea with the goldfish flakes, hadn't thought about those. Your tobies are much larger than mine! I think you had much more success with keeping fry alive in their first couple weeks than me. Yours are also growing much faster, which probably helps!

      Kohaku/Kohaku pairing, you should end up with some quality fish, I'm excited to see what they become!

    13. #33
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      What will you be doing with these bad boys once you have done your final culling? Can I take number Like at the bmv. I asked first so that puts me at number 1 right

    14. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by HAMMATRON View Post
      You gave me a good idea with the goldfish flakes, hadn't thought about those. Your tobies are much larger than mine! I think you had much more success with keeping fry alive in their first couple weeks than me. Yours are also growing much faster, which probably helps!

      Kohaku/Kohaku pairing, you should end up with some quality fish, I'm excited to see what they become!
      Hammatron, some of the fry in my 300 gal blue tank is similar to yours. I still have lot of tiny ones in there that will probably be eaten. I think the growth in the 600 gallon tank is due to a difference in environment. The Taro in the planter keeps the water from turning green because it is taking up the plant nutrients, it is completing the biological cycle in a closed loop system. It fine tunes the water quality, so their appetite is better. I am using the dried decapsulated brine shrimp eggs as the main growth driver and the Tetra Gold fish flakes enriched with vitamin C as a supplement to their diet. I will switch to the mini floating pellets at the end of next month and cull.

      In regards to producing high quality Kohaku, based off my previous attempts it is like finding a needle in a hay stack. Out of all these frys maybe only 6 or less and possibly none will make the grade.

      In a kohaku spawn unlike a showa spawn there are 50% more fry, over crowding can stunt the growth and poor filtration can cause other problems such as illness and flared gills. Its a challenge, I have made filtration improvements along the way. I feel good about this spawn although I still made mistakes like forgetting that the water is running in my 300 gal tank. I lost a bunch of fry from the over flow, its a good thing I have two tanks.

      Notice the size difference in this blue 300 gal tank in comparison to the black 600 gal tank. I moved the tobies into the 600 gal tank, they were about the same size as the medium fry in there.

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      Last edited by Roger; 6 Days Ago at 04:49 PM.

    15. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
      What will you be doing with these bad boys once you have done your final culling? Can I take number Like at the bmv. I asked first so that puts me at number 1 right
      Unfortunately, I am a koi assassin. If they don't make the grade they become food for the rest. Japanese breeders boil the cull and feed it back to the remaining fry. They think it helps them develop immunity to disease.

      I save some of the cull as dead or live bait to catch salt water fish from shore. There are more hardcore shore fishermen than koi hobbyist in my circle of influence. Fishermen aren't sentimental about their bait.
      Last edited by Roger; 6 Days Ago at 05:21 PM.

    16. #36
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      I have been doing some web searches on Hasegawa and Dainichi kohaku blood line and this is what I came away with. Hasegawa uses the Tomoin and Manzo Kohaku blood line. He use to keep them seperate, but he eventually combined them, so my spawn should have some of both types. I think Manzo has a darker red and Tomoin has a lighter persimmon color red or it could be the other way around. Anyway, I see two distinct colors and two different body type from the two males and one female Hasegawa kohaku that I have. http://koikichi.com/koi-judging-and-appreciation/

      Dainichi uses the Kagura and Sankuro Kohaku bloodline with the emphasis on growing very large koi that retain their color. I think Kagura and Sankuro evolved from the Tomoin blood line. Translate this article https://www.koi-ontwikkeling.info/bi...ag-kohaku.html

      The Dainichi Marin kohaku body type looks muscular and is easy to distinguish from the Hasegawa Tomoin and Manzo kohaku body type. In this spawn, I don't really have a preference, but I am hoping to get a few jumbo females that pull on the Marin body type, so I can pair it with my Sakai male kohaku. I know Sakai paid a lot of money for high quality one offs like the famous Loran and a few others to perfect their bloodline. I will find out what bloodline they are currently using, I know they used Sensuke in the past. I'll link it when I find it.

      I am very disappointed with my male Marudo Kohaku, it had a deep dark red color and a very nice pattern when I purchased it, but it turned completely white after it matured. I am scratching my head on that one.
      Last edited by Roger; 4 Days Ago at 06:22 PM.

    17. #37
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      Koi assasin

    18. #38
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      Tinkering with set up.............

      I made some adjustments to my 300 gal tank. I put a 45 degree coupling on the bottom of the return, so the current flows down the middle and pushes the fry poop towards the sponge filter. The sides, back end and top of the water is calm enough for them to hang out. I also made an adjustment to the size of the ventril hole on the return. The bubbles on the return reflects the size of the ventril hole. A smaller hole produces smaller bubbles. In addition, I extended one of the one inch pvc pipes for the sponge filter with a coupling. I found some large dead fry behind where it was flushed to the tank. I am not sure how they got back there, but I made the adjustment, so that don't happen again. These Hydra pro #5 sponge filters are rated for 450 gals of water flow per hour, so two of them is perfect for my 900 gal per hour mag pump. They are heavy duty coarse type sponge filters that can go a week with out cleaning, but I clean them once a day to polish my water. The bio balls in my trash bin has been seeded with the new Microlift Gel bacteria prior to the spawn. This new technology is amazing, it takes the down time out of cycling a filter.

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      Last edited by Roger; 4 Days Ago at 07:05 PM.

    19. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
      I am very disappointed with my male Marudo Kohaku, it had a deep dark red color and a very nice pattern when I purchased it, but it turned completely white after it matured. I am scratching my head on that one.
      That's too bad. I have not seen that happen. I've seen kohaku with only a little red lose it, and kohaku with a lot of red lose a little of it, but not one with substantial red lose it all. Sumi is another story, and seems to be more volatile.

    20. #40
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      Matt, Marudo is now on my breeder to avoid list.

      I had to buy another 1000 gal per hour Laguna 2000 power jet pump from amazon, for my long skinny wooden framed 300 gal tank. As I recall, the small holes around the case of the power jet pump might be ideal for 1 month old fry. https://www.amazon.com/Laguna-PowerJ...45&sr=8-1&th=1

      That way I can switch back to my ultima 2000 filtration and get rid of the submersible sponge filters. All I need to do is put a mesh bag over the in take pipe and its good to go for the larger fry. The string algae is getting out of control, it has been clogging my sponge filters. This increases the suction pressure to the front tip of the sponge trapping and killing bigger fry. This happened because I got lazy and did not clean the sponge filter the other day, it need to be cleaned daily. What a pain in the neck! I lost a three step kohaku fry on that screw up.

      I kept one four step kohaku and 3 showa from my previous failed spawn. I had only about 100 orange fry and 15 black showa fry to chose from. The kohaku pulled on the Kagura side of its Dainichi Marin father. I got a maruten three step kindai showa that look like the combination type, I got a feeling its a female, it has good body confirmation. It will be used to complete my quest to reinvigorate my Sakura showa blood line. I bred in the Omosako white and black quality and jumbo genes from Marin in this Dainichi Sakura combination.

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      Last edited by Roger; 22 Hours Ago at 04:42 AM.

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