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    Thread: Pond maintenance practices

    1. #21
      CHICHI's Avatar
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      Quit making Life difficult Koi Keepers.

      Clearly this works for Roddy, as does my protocol for me.

      Test the water, and tweak accordingly that which`YOU` feel safe with re implementing ...

      I love Roddy, always have,

      His perspective re PHUN experience, I wholeheartedly endorse xxxxxxx

    2. #22
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      It is quite refreshing now in 2019 to "get a little respect" after many years of personal attacks by a large segment of the koi hobby 20 to 28 years ago. I became disgusted enough to simply leave attending koi shows and writing on koi boards to the bullies back then. Their ignorance of technology was legendary, their personalities disgusting. I don't see that now, very refreshing. Thanks to all of you for a very pleasant couple of days back on the forum.
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    3. #23
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      Good to see you posting again Roddy, I ran into Griff at the Raleigh show a couple of weeks ago. Here is my question, You treat with PP before you clean your settlement? I always clean my mechanical filters before a treatment so as to maximize the oxidization of organics in the pond volume instead of burning them up on crap in the settlement tank.
      I am running a 12800 gallon system with 2 bottom drains feeding a 1500 gal settlement tank. Flow rate is about 4 k GPH to a submerged biofilter of 400 gallons with 40 LPM. of air full of matala and PVC shavings as well as a skimmer running 5 K GPH over a bakki shower of PVC shavings. Stocking is about 50 fish from 6 to 30 inches. I keep KH and GH at about 80 to 100 PPM with a continuous trickle of well water. 1 to 1.5 GPH. So far this season no UV needed. I only treat at 2 PPM, 90 grams per dose. have you considered a Phoam fractionator on your system? I run one off the output from my bakki and have good results in the form of very little foam from my 2 spindrifters (40 LPM of air) and lots of foam at the fractionator after the bakki before the mid water return. The puppy looks like a handful!
      Last edited by hacnp; 1 Week Ago at 09:00 PM. Reason: typos, I am thumb fingered
      Regards, Ken

      The most powerful point of suction in the pond occurs at our checking account. It's all Marges fault!

    4. #24
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      I didn't even following the ride is protocol for years, with no ill effects on my pond or my koi. The low-level doses don't affect the fish or the biofiltration, but does wonders on the crud!!!!

      We love you Roddy!


      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."






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    5. #25
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      I wish PP crystals were legal to buy here off the shelf. It's classified as a controlled-access oxidizer here.

      Edit: Woohoo. Someone's selling em online in 100g tubs for pharma use. "Potassium Permanganate BP" it is labeled.

      How long to you reckon a pound of the stuff will last? IIRC when the pond docs visited me the last time, they used like a teaspoon for my 4000g pond.

      Edit2: Using the KP calculators, it appears the local doc's been grossly underdosing. A teaspoon's gonna do nada. Looks like I need 30g to get my pond to 2ppm.

      A 100g tub's about just right for a bombing run then I ordered 5 just in case the store goes titsup.
      Last edited by DragonFireSG; 1 Week Ago at 03:45 AM.

    6. #26
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      Anyone have any experience to share as to how their pond vegetation handles PP bombing? I am keen to get this underway as I have been having some persistent parasite issues of late.

      Also, can I skip the peroxide finishing if the residues are not bothering me? Peroxide is still not available off the shelf here.
      Last edited by DragonFireSG; 1 Week Ago at 03:47 AM.

    7. #27
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      I treated with the pp before cleaning the large volume of solids out of the settlement tank for two reasons. First, the pp attacks what is dissolved in the water with little effect on bulk solids on the bottom, so very little of the pp is used up on sludge. Secondly, cleaning out the 1200 gallon settling tank and refilling it requires a sodium thiosulfate charge to kill the chlorine content in the tap water to refill it. Sodium thiosulfate instantaneously kills pp, and that sodium thiosulfate charge would consume a lot more pp than is used up by the sludge.

      A foam fractionator would probably end my need for a daily dose of antifoam, I agree. I tried to do that a few times, it never worked satisfactorily for me. Maybe I will find time to try it again while “off the grid” this Summer.
      Last edited by Roddy Conrad; 1 Week Ago at 07:19 AM.
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    8. #28
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by DragonFireSG View Post
      Anyone have any experience to share as to how their pond vegetation handles PP bombing? I am keen to get this underway as I have been having some persistent parasite issues of late.

      Also, can I skip the peroxide finishing if the residues are not bothering me? Peroxide is still not available off the shelf here.
      There is no requirement to use the peroxide at the end. The spent forms of pp are known growth stimulators for fish. The brown color of the spent pp in the water goes away in a few days, it is only to immediately get colorless water and to guarantee there is no residual pp active to use the peroxide.

      I first kill any remaining pp with sodium thiosulfate (hydrate form) before using the peroxide anyway. Again, the peroxide is only for immediate pond beauty with that amazing colorless water.

      plants do okay through pp dosing, I used to have plants in my koi ponds before the koi grew big enough to destroy all plant life.

      On pp supplies, I have bought three pails of pp powder, 55 pounds per pail, and have used 75 pounds so far of the 165 pound supply in my basement stores of ponding generic chemicals. I do notice pp powder is an off the shelf chemical at our local farm store, sold there for treating well water.

      I once taught a Vietnamese refugee who was running a USA pond store how to use pp in her business. She told me how she saved an entire village from death by having every person in the village to drink a pp solution to kill the internal malady that was killing the villagers. So then she said now it has saved my business as well as my family’s lives in Vietnam.
      Last edited by Roddy Conrad; 1 Week Ago at 07:54 AM.
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    9. #29
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Hey, Singapore! If peroxide is not available, surely sodium percarbonate which is used as for laundry uses is available? Sodium percabonate immediately hydrolyzes in water to become hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate, and is a satisfactory substitute. In the USA sodium percarbonate is not controlled, and is also sold as a kitchen product for cleaning up cooking as trade name Oxiclean. It is cheaper simply labeled sodium percarbonate.
      Last edited by Roddy Conrad; 1 Week Ago at 07:53 AM.
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    10. #30
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      Good to see you posting Roddy

      I tried monthly maintenance PPing several years ago for a season.
      1 teaspoon per 1000 gallons without using hp to clear the brown. It naturally cleared on its own after a couple day or so.
      I didn’t have instruments to measure the water so I erred on the side of caution with the PP amounts.

      I didn’t note any ill effects on the fish except that after every treatment they’d appear to be paranoid for about a day or so.
      Just more jittery.
      I realized their behavior was probably due to the fact that the pp oxidized all the pheromones (or whatever) in the pond so they didn’t immediately recognize their surroundings. They did act like fish in a new pond somewhat.
      Beyond that they seemed fine.

      I just tried for 1 season but no longer do it. I think largely bc I don’t think I need to. Plus it’s a pain in the butt to get pp - you have to sign a biohazard waiver as I recall if ordering in the internet.
      I think it comes in handy if you’re overstocked or water is scarce...just depends on your situation.
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    11. #31
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      The fish are not fond of the purple cloud, and the water feels “new” to the fish. There are two “natural” fish reactions to a pp treatment. Often a pp treatment will cause spawning from the absence of pheromones. The fish are usually ravenously hungry. And of course the colors of the koi are brighter.
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    12. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roddy Conrad View Post
      Hey, Singapore! If peroxide is not available, surely sodium percarbonate which is used as for laundry uses is available? Sodium percabonate immediately hydrolyzes in water to become hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate, and is a satisfactory substitute. In the USA sodium percarbonate is not controlled, and is also sold as a kitchen product for cleaning up cooking as trade name Oxiclean. It is cheaper simply labeled sodium percarbonate.
      Indeed! Sodium percarbonate should be available here. Thanks for the chemistry pointers

    13. #33
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Before and after a standard daily defoamer charge, second picture an hour later.
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      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    14. #34
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      So good to see you posting again, Roddy! I still have a lot of your old threads bookmarked!

      I have also tried doing regular PP treatments for a season and observed the same thing as rainblood regarding fish behavior - they were very paranoid for next 1-2 days. But the main reason I stopped doing the treatments is because I didn't think they were necessary in my particular situation. So I'm extra glad to see you back here because I get to actually ask you if you think the PP treatmens would be useful for me.

      I have a very small pond, about a 1,000 gallons. It's not too heavily stocked, 7 fairly small koi, 12-20". I have a BD, skimmer, Zakki Sieve, bead filter, and a Zakki shower so the pond is fairly well filtered. I also do 50% weekly water changes via a constant tap water drip and overflow system. My tap water does contain chloramine so I add Seachem Safe every other day. At such low water volume the cost of Seachem Safe is negligible. My tap water has only 40ppm KH so I add baking soda twice a week. The water is always crystal clear, no brown hue. So because I'm doing such large water changes and because the water is already clear, I figured I don't need regular PP treatments so I stopped spooking the fish for no reason. Do you agree with this assessment? Anything else you would recommend? I have never added Epsom salt or calcium chloride flake.
      Last edited by JL41; 6 Days Ago at 11:27 AM.

    15. #35
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      The 50% water change per week is similar effect to no water exchange and regular pp treatment. With 50% water change per week, the calcium chloride and Epsom salt makes less sense.

      Any dechlorinating agent kills pp, so with 50% water change and dichlorvos all the time, you would have to stop the water exchange to be able to use pp.

      A 50% water exchange weekly in my 4000 gallon system would run me about $100 per month. For $1 per month, at only $1 per pound for pp in 55 pound pails, I find it easier to treat with less than a dollar per month for pp treatment than pay $100 per month here for 8000 gallons of tap water.

      Pp is still what you need if your fish get ulcers.

      Bottom line is it works swell for you!
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    16. #36
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      $1 per pound for PP? Dang. Stuff costs $30 a pound here.

      I managed to find a source of 3% hydrogen peroxide. I reckon for a 4000 gallon pond, 1.5 pints should suffice?

      Really need to make a trip to Malaysia to sneak in some chems. The prices here are way over the top. I can't even buy muriatic acid for RDF maintenance.

      Don't tell the cops lol.

    17. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roddy Conrad View Post
      Bottom line is it works swell for you!
      Thank you! I must be living in a very cheap tap water area, my entire household water bill for any month is about $50 so the pond can't be more than $10 at most. It just doesn't make a lot of sense trying to save on that in my situation.

      Another question - do you have ideas of what works and what doesn't work against herons? I live an hour away from you so we are probably having the same headaches.

    18. #38
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      We do not have a heron problem. There are two possible explanations for herons not eating our koi. First, there are “usually” two large (90 pounds of muscle each) Bouvier des Flanders dogs near the koi pond guarding it all day, they are capable of leaping 10 feet in the air to catch a bird in their big jaws, and I have seen them do that. Secondly, there is an electric fence on top of the pond wall, if a bird touched the fence and the water, the bird would be instantaneously electrocuted, and that has happened to crows showing an interest. I quickly and quietly remove the dead crows since Elizabeth likes them.

      My water bill runs between $100 and $200 per month, dropping to $75 per month in Winter. Before learning to recover the pond water with pp, we had months up to $400 for water.
      Started as a full time graduate student in Environmental Science in Jan 2019 at age 77 now to start a new career. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great!

    19. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roddy Conrad View Post
      The fish are not fond of the purple cloud, and the water feels “new” to the fish. There are two “natural” fish reactions to a pp treatment. Often a pp treatment will cause spawning from the absence of pheromones. The fish are usually ravenously hungry. And of course the colors of the koi are brighter.
      Interesting on the pheromones. I've been using ro to treat my Pond water itself and not the tap water. All my females have really grown alot and still no spawns . The males are filling out but not going like the females. I have 14 koi in q 1500 gallon tank and overstocked. My tosai tank has 8 and only 300 gallons. I may pp the 300 gallon but of course wont treat the ro equipped tank. Most do large water changes to remove pheromones etc and it does cost alot to do that in California. I change out 10 % a day and still not enough imo

    20. #40
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      Roddy, do you think PPM of PP is the most important thing to monitor or is the amount of time the water stays purple? Do you have a guideline for how long you want to see purple?

      Also, does salt impact PP treatments and are you a salt user?

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