• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 8 of 8

    Thread: Water hardness

    1. #1
      Jaye is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2018
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      3

      Water hardness

      I'm curious to know why it is desirable to maintain water hardness around 200 and up to 400 ppm. My Sacramento hardness comes in at 100 ppm. Isn't the water our koi come from (if coming from Japan) even softer? I recently raised my fishless premature pond to 240 with bicarb and my "almost started" carpet algae died. It even looked crystalized. I did a 90% water change and took it back to 200 ppm to support my future bio-filter. Back to the soft water question, isn't that what koi evolved in?

    2. #2
      jcardona1's Avatar
      jcardona1 is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2007
      Location
      CA, USA
      Posts
      187
      Are you mixing up hardness (GH) with alkalinity/buffering capacity (KH)? Adding sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) to raise your water's KH and buffering capacity won't increase the general hardness (GH).

    3. #3
      Marilyn's Avatar
      Marilyn is online now Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2008
      Location
      happy in the Heartland! 46071
      Posts
      16,434
      Koi have evolved everywhere but their focused development to become what we recognize as Nishikigoi was done in Japan.

      The function of maintaining higher alkalinity (KH) is the make sure that your bio filters keep up with the biological functions to convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. It's what keeps your pH stable and the koi out of what is called a pH crash. Since they are in closed systems, we have to put water in, we are also responsible for making sure there are the things in there to process the ammonia, maintain pH thus alkalinity and provide overall koi health.

      Soft (low GH) water is fine, may be good for skin and is closer to what the Japanese have. What we have found is that it may be more the contaminant factor and less the TDS/GH factor here. IOW, we flow through a goodly amount of water so that the skin remains soft and clear, the beni improves as does the sumi.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    4. #4
      Russell Peters's Avatar
      Russell Peters is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2007
      Location
      Thorntown, IN
      Posts
      25,801
      I would like to add that, in Japan, they have to raise the KH levels so that they can keep Koi indoors for long periods of time.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    5. #5
      Jaye is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2018
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      3
      Mixing up, probably yes. I was advised not to give too much attention to the details. (ugh!) Does this mean then, that my Gh is what it is, and what I get out of the auto-filler is what it shall be? There are countless ponds in my area and I'm sure no one is over-tinkering like I have been.

    6. #6
      Jaye is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2018
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      3
      That I didn't know! Btw Russell, last year Steve Walker told me to tell you hello after I told him I try to keep up with your posts.

    7. #7
      jcardona1's Avatar
      jcardona1 is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2007
      Location
      CA, USA
      Posts
      187
      Quote Originally Posted by Jaye View Post
      Mixing up, probably yes. I was advised not to give too much attention to the details. (ugh!) Does this mean then, that my Gh is what it is, and what I get out of the auto-filler is what it shall be? There are countless ponds in my area and I'm sure no one is over-tinkering like I have been.
      Yes most likely. I'm in the greater Sacramento area too and my tapwater measures about 4-5 for both KH and GH, about 72-90ppm. I add baking soda to bring my KH up to about 8 or 143ppm.

      GH or general hardness is the measurement of calcium and magnesium in the water. This is what constitutes "hard water". This can be lowered by using a water softener with an ion exchange resin but this is not recommended for aquariums and ponds because the resin releases salt in exchange for absorbing magnesium and calcium. The other way to strip these minerals out of the water is to use a reverse osmosis system. Honestly unless you have extremely hard water I would not bother with trying to mess with your soft or hard water. Fish will adapt. They may not always maintain the best coloration but messing with water hardness is a dangerous game to play as it impacts a fish's osmotic regulation.

      I'm assuming the numbers you gave above are KH values not GH correct? Here is a typical GH scale to show that hardness of 100ppm is still considered fairly soft as far as fish are concerned:



      KH or alkalinity or buffering capacity is important for the reasons Marilyn mentioned. My KH out of the tap is about 4-5 but I bump it up to about 8. This does not affect my GH. Can you clarify what you were testing? It's important to know both, but also important to know that KH is not a measure of hardness.

    8. #8
      Russell Peters's Avatar
      Russell Peters is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2007
      Location
      Thorntown, IN
      Posts
      25,801
      Quote Originally Posted by Jaye View Post
      That I didn't know! Btw Russell, last year Steve Walker told me to tell you hello after I told him I try to keep up with your posts.
      Please tell Steve, when you see him again, that I wish him the best.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •