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  • Results 1 to 19 of 19

    Thread: New Tosai: Ginrin Showa and Sakai Sanke

    1. #1
      Atkbear is offline Member
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      New Tosai: Ginrin Showa and Sakai Sanke

      Hey Guys!

      Its warming up and I picked up my first 2 koi for the beginning of the season. Please let me know your thoughts and I hope I am getting better at choosing decent koi! Thank you always for all the great feedback.

      I'll try to get better pictures next time as well. Tips?

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    2. #2
      abuchi123's Avatar
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      Neither are good examples of their varieties.

      The ginrin showa is almost certainly a male with iffy beni in the long term.

      The sanke has low quality sumi that will not likely improve. Unfortunately, there is no positive attribute I can see on this fish.

    3. #3
      Nguyen365's Avatar
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      good study tosai

    4. #4
      Atkbear is offline Member
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      Thanks for the feedback! Can you provide a bit of what makes the iffy beni and low quality sumi? Is it the patchiness and it wont tighten up?

      Just want to know so I can look out for it next time.

    5. #5
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      Here's what I've learned in the past couple weeks as I've started to pay more attention to what constitutes a good fish. Please note I'm a complete novice and only repeating what I've read here:

      Showa - The beni on this one is very "hard" and given the intensity & deepness of the red color indicates the beni has finished very early. There is no 'softness' or elasticity to the beni and no presence of sashi. Ideally you want sashi of 1 scale as this indicates the color is deep and strong. As the fish grows, the white skin will thicken, covering up the sashi and giving a razor-sharp edge. Lack of sashi on a young fish is concerning because it indicates the beni is shallow and will not last as the fish grows and matures. Also of concern is the kiwa, it's mostly all Maruzome kiwa which is the scallop-shaped edges you see on each scale. Kiwa on a young fish that consists of almost entirely 'flowery-looking' Maruzome is another red flag. This is a good indicator that the beni will essentially disintegrate and go unstable as the fish grows.

      Sanke - The sumi on this one is pretty bad. Neither the sashi (front) or kiwa (rear) edges of the sumi pattern are clean. Sashi is very blurred, almost has a pixelated look. Sashi on a young fish should be 1 scale deep, but it should be even. On this one it is very sporadic. Kiwa is also messy, almost looks like paint splatter or overspray, giving the fish a 'dirty' appearance.
      Last edited by jcardona1; 04-10-2019 at 06:56 PM.

    6. #6
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      Thank you for the explanation. I can see what you mean about the beni. I am glad atleast I paid for a learning lesson. Will the paint splatter tighten up over time?

    7. #7
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Atkbear View Post
      Thank you for the explanation. I can see what you mean about the beni. I am glad atleast I paid for a learning lesson. Will the paint splatter tighten up over time?
      No, if it did it would not be an issue.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    8. #8
      Atkbear is offline Member
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      Ahh I see. Thank you! Ill continue to grow and see what happens practicing husbandry skills. Ill use what I learned here to choose couple for koiphen online GO.

      Any though on the basics about body conformation, skin, and general beginner things to look out for!

    9. #9
      OCkoiFan's Avatar
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      Ask my girl Google
      “How to select tosai koi?”
      There are a few vids on YouTube
      Also glance at some of the old koi judges threads
      M.Nguyen


    10. #10
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      Got it! I clearly need to study more, so I will continue to do so!! I am even more motivated to figure the Koi eye out and find a decent one. I'll continue to post update photos on these as well.

      Always open to more critques as well.

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    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by Atkbear View Post
      Got it! I clearly need to study more, so I will continue to do so!! I am even more motivated to figure the Koi eye out and find a decent one. I'll continue to post update photos on these as well.

      Always open to more critques as well.
      This is a great attitude to have. It's all progress to finding koi that will satisfy you in the short term as well as the long term.

      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    12. #12
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      Thank you Marilyn! I am still very early on in my journey and looking to learn from this fantastic community!

      Even with this small mistake on my part, I am still enjoying the hobby of raising them. My morning routine is to watch and feed them while sipping a nice cup of coffee!

      Again, Thank you all for the thoughtful feedback.

    13. #13
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      Did the dealer actually claim the sanke was from Sakai Fish Farm? Not that it 100% couldn't be but I do wonder if SFF would bother with pond grade fish for not much money while risking ruining its reputation.

    14. #14
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      Yes. This is not to put blame or anything on dealer. They are always great! I had gotten from Andrew International Koi. Ryan had helped me choose, but I ultimately decided to get them.

      Also, I will be attending GO in May. Hopefully, I will get to say hi and introduce myself to some of you!

    15. #15
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      It saddens me that the experts aren't particularly hopeful about the prospects of these fish because that GR Showa is sure pretty to look at now. I am not doubting that they are right. Enjoy that fish while you can.

    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by mplskoi View Post
      It saddens me that the experts aren't particularly hopeful about the prospects of these fish because that GR Showa is sure pretty to look at now. I am not doubting that they are right. Enjoy that fish while you can.
      Theres something beautiful about GR on shiroji, isnt there? Especially on a smaller fish.
      But there are more important things than bling, namely that this fish will likely turn into a long, skinny fish with lack luster skin having 4 red spots and some haphazard sumi.
      I also think its a boy.
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by mplskoi View Post
      It saddens me that the experts aren't particularly hopeful about the prospects of these fish because that GR Showa is sure pretty to look at now. I am not doubting that they are right. Enjoy that fish while you can.

      This is a "Kashira" GR Showa Tosai from Taniguchi Koi Farm. Kashira is the very top Koi, even over what they call Tategoi, and everything I see is so much better on this Koi but it won't become apparent to most until a year or two down the road. The example posted by the OP is not going to get better, just bigger, and what looks good now won't be there in a year or two. It is with this knowledge that it makes it hard for me to be hopeful of the GR Showa in this thread. On another thread there is talk about Rob saying that after most of the Tosai he had were picked through there were many of the best left over. Learning what becomes a better Koi is very difficult as it is easy to be drawn to what we think is good. Pattern and bright colors always sell first.
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      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    18. #18
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Here is an example of what I am talking about. The Showa on the left is when I bought it and no one thought anything about it. As soon as it developed to what it started to become, on the right, every one wanted it. I try to pick Koi that develop into better Koi but they sometimes do not look very good at the start.
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      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    19. #19
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      Wow. Thank you sending those images. It really helps to have the visual context to what has been said.

      Ive been getting to caught up in the now and now the future of the koi... I'll keep reminding myself of that!

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