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    Thread: Doitsu Showa

    1. #1
      berkokid is offline Senior Member
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      Doitsu Showa

      Now that I've finally finished my pond (7400g), I get to look at fish!!!!!! I am just going to buy 3 semi-conservatively priced koi to get the pond started and have something to look at.

      My favorite koi are Doitsu Showa, always have been.

      This gal is available on Kodama. Here's my take and I'm interested in more experienced keepers feedback on my perspective.

      FYI: born in 2018, 14.75 inches

      Body conformation: looks a bit thin behind the pectoral fins and in the picture at least, there seems to be some imbalance in the size of the pectoral fins, left (in pic) being larger than right. This could be the pic, or angle of the fins, but it seems significant enough that I notice it. The head appears a bit small, more torpedo shaped than I think would be desirable.

      Color: Sumi looks stronger than Beni. There's not a lot of white base here to work with, but it looks to me as though the koi is a bit stressed or that it's just not particularly lustrous. If the head cleans up a bit and becomes more distinct and some of the sumi towards the tail fades out cleanly towards the tail fin, that would be desirable. While it seems unlikely, it would be nice if the koi finished with a bit more balance laterally in the "third step" between beni and sumi.

      Of course, it's also entirely possible that the sumi will fade out and she ends up looking like a dirty Utsuri!

      So - more experienced humans, what are your thoughts?

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      - Jonathan
      - aka "Berko"

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    2. #2
      abuchi123's Avatar
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      This fish is not a good representation of a good doitsu showa. The body is off. Beni is weak. The sumi is a mess. The skin lacks glow.

    3. #3
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      A much better example.

      Last edited by abuchi123; 10-31-2019 at 12:47 PM.

    4. #4
      Rob Forbis is offline Senior Member
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      It is impolite in a public forum to comment on the failings of fish that are for sale.

      But would say that in that auction for the same total cost (probably including shipping) there are sveral koi that to me would better suit a new pond. The Aigromo next to your showa for example. And there is a good kin showa with a low starting price. The female karashi would add in yellow, get big and be friendly.

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rob Forbis View Post
      It is impolite in a public forum to comment on the failings of fish that are for sale.

      But would say that in that auction for the same total cost (probably including shipping) there are sveral koi that to me would better suit a new pond. The Aigromo next to your showa for example. And there is a good kin showa with a low starting price. The female karashi would add in yellow, get big and be friendly.

      I don't see your point at all unless the comment is from a competing koi dealer.

      In the age of Amazon and Yelp, are millions of comments on restaurants and products all impolite.

      On the flip side, can anyone ever learn anything from this fish other than don't buy it again?

    6. #6
      berkokid is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by abuchi123 View Post
      This fish is not a good representation of a good doitsu showa. The body is off. Beni is weak. The sumi is a mess. The skin lacks glow.
      So you effectively agree w/ my take.
      - Jonathan
      - aka "Berko"

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by berkokid View Post
      So you effectively agree w/ my take.
      There are so many things wrong with this fish. If it was an "average" doitsu showa, I probably would have said nothing.

      1. The skin is dull. That should be the deal breaker already. A fish will not improve without good skin .

      2. The body looks crooked and beat up. Notice the broken p-fin. It probably wasn't raised in a good environment.

      3. Sumi like this one is hopeless. It will never clean up. The sumi is closer to grayish black. On a doitsu, sumi should be sharp and wet ink black.

    8. #8
      rainblood's Avatar
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      You're beating a dead horse at this point, buddy
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      You're beating a dead horse at this point, buddy
      It pisses me off when dealers and breeders dump junk koi into the market. It doesn't not benefit the hobby. Some might argue it is just struggling business trying to make some money. However, when you see some of the biggest breeders dumping culls as tategoi, it can only be greed. They certainly don't need the extra money. They are insulting you while taking your money.

    10. #10
      berkokid is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by abuchi123 View Post
      It pisses me off when dealers and breeders dump junk koi into the market. It doesn't not benefit the hobby. Some might argue it is just struggling business trying to make some money. However, when you see some of the biggest breeders dumping culls as tategoi, it can only be greed. They certainly don't need the extra money. They are insulting you while taking your money.
      Keep in mind, I was constructively critical of the fish. It's not a fish I was particularly interested in buying based on my novice-read of it. It doesn't seem important enough to get super-worked up over. If the auction price stays low and someone wants to buy it and learn from it, that doesn't seem so bad to me.
      - Jonathan
      - aka "Berko"

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    11. #11
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    12. #12
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      Well I'm glad you guys said it because I thought it was a horrible looking fish when I first saw it and was doubting everything I thought I knew about koi.

    13. #13
      rainblood's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by abuchi123 View Post
      It pisses me off when dealers and breeders dump junk koi into the market. It doesn't not benefit the hobby. Some might argue it is just struggling business trying to make some money. However, when you see some of the biggest breeders dumping culls as tategoi, it can only be greed. They certainly don't need the extra money. They are insulting you while taking your money.
      Your robin hood complex aside - its just business. There is a market for everything and beauty is subjective.
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    14. #14
      abuchi123's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      Your robin hood complex aside - its just business. There is a market for everything and beauty is subjective.
      This is a cringe and move-on fish. The business is causing distress to some people.

      I had a dream last night that I was surrounded by hundreds of cringy looking koi. Oh, wait, did that actually happen when I stayed in a mega resort in Hawaii last time.

    15. #15
      berkokid is offline Senior Member
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      Lesson 18,345 about koi keeping - I will never post a thread about a fish again unless it's sick.

      I'll stick to threads about digging holes, pouring concrete and working with PVC.
      - Jonathan
      - aka "Berko"

    16. #16
      inazuma28 is offline Senior Member
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      This is the advice i wish someone had given me when starting my collection. Cheap koi only fall apart. You want something that will keep improving and adding joy each year. Buying one $500 fish is almost always better than buying 5 $100.00 fish. I work with a very modest budget so I buy only one fish per year. If you want a doistu showa, buy a good one. If not, down the road when the fish falls apart and your tastes have changed and you realize how bad a fish is, it will be a swimming dissapointment taking up valuable real-estate. These comments are general and not directly related to the fish above. Take your time to find "the one".

    17. #17
      inazuma28 is offline Senior Member
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      these are a better grade of fish. Ive never used this dealer, but they always have a good mix of fish.
      http://www.champkoi.com/koi/search/Doitsu%20Showa/Any/a

    18. #18
      berkokid is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28 View Post
      these are a better grade of fish. Ive never used this dealer, but they always have a good mix of fish.
      http://www.champkoi.com/koi/search/Doitsu%20Showa/Any/a
      yep - look at that frequently.
      - Jonathan
      - aka "Berko"

    19. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by berkokid View Post
      Lesson 18,345 about koi keeping - I will never post a thread about a fish again unless it's sick.

      I'll stick to threads about digging holes, pouring concrete and working with PVC.
      There were some hard comments born out of frustration but the frustration, most assuredly, was not in your direction. Don't stop posting koi eval. Every koi posted is helping loads of people with decisions they may make.

      The bottom line is we don't want you to spend your hard earned money koi that don't deserve it.
      One of the greatest satisfactions in this hobby is seeing a koi you selected swimming in your pond looking stunning, active and thriving.
      This koi will not give you that satisfaction.

      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    20. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by berkokid View Post
      Lesson 18,345 about koi keeping - I will never post a thread about a fish again unless it's sick.

      I'll stick to threads about digging holes, pouring concrete and working with PVC.
      LOL, I learned this lesson way earlier than you... it's lesson 9,520 for me.

      New hobbyist are an empty ponds... curious and want to try many different things(on a budget), while experienced hobbyist are a full pond... are mostly done with playing around. They know pretty much what they want and very critical about things. New members come in excited, and want to share a koi or two... asking about potentials and evaluations - just to be told the koi are trash. The experts have been on this boat ride for many many moons, and have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. Don't fault them for having a higher standard and difficult to impress, but instead... be appreciative that they still care enough to make a comment. It may sound degrading(to the koi), but it's wisdom for those who wants to listen.

      Keep on ponding!

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