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    Thread: Help with air-stone/diffuser build

    1. #1
      tom66 is offline Senior Member
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      Help with air-stone/diffuser build

      I have two 330 gal tanks and need to make moving beds in there. I bought a 8500 Gal pump so after all turns each tanks should run approx 4K GPH. I bought two Medo 120 L, and now I have to decide how many diffusers I should have, and what size. I bought for now 35 cubic feet of K1, so the tanks will be filled way below their 50% capacity. I don't know anything on the subject, I don't even understand the difference between air-stones and diffusers, and what/how their shape matters. I found two old threads on KP, in one jtp79 built something with 4 7" discs, in another thread Brian_e_m built one with two 9" discs. One of my vendors said that they do it with one diffuser.
      Can anyone help? given the size of the tank, can the media be moving sufficiently well with this much air blowing straight in the middle of the tank ... or should I have it spread among 2 or 4 places?
      Should I go for air disks (what is a good brand) or air stones? and of what shapes and sizes ?
      thanks
      Tom

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    2. #2
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      The rubber membrane air diffusers will last forever and give more flow with less restriction . I’ve never had one clog , but they can be soaked in vinegar if they did.
      I bought the Matala brand from Seaside Aquatics , they come in 9’’ and 12’’ . They have male pipe threads on the bottom , so easy to attach to a PVC pipe frame . For Your size totes , I would use four 9’’ in each moving bed with the 120 L pump. Easiest way to weight the frame down from floating , is to place a concrete block over the frame .
      You might have to contact Tom directly as I didn’t see them on His website , https://www.koiphen.com/forums/membe...deAquatics-LLC
      .
      Here’s what they look like
      .Name:  B0D0714F-D774-4AE7-9C90-2A679A9B05E3.jpeg
Views: 299
Size:  57.0 KB

    3. #3
      tom66 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by catfish whiskers View Post
      The rubber membrane air diffusers will last forever and give more flow with less restriction . I’ve never had one clog , but they can be soaked in vinegar if they did.
      I bought the Matala brand from Seaside Aquatics , they come in 9’’ and 12’’ . They have male pipe threads on the bottom , so easy to attach to a PVC pipe frame . For Your size totes , I would use four 9’’ in each moving bed with the 120 L pump. Easiest way to weight the frame down from floating , is to place a concrete block over the frame .
      You might have to contact Tom directly as I didn’t see them on His website , https://www.koiphen.com/forums/membe...deAquatics-LLC
      .
      Here’s what they look like
      .Name:  B0D0714F-D774-4AE7-9C90-2A679A9B05E3.jpeg
Views: 299
Size:  57.0 KB
      so you think that to do it with just one, or two per tank is not enough? are you saying it on a hunch or you know it for a fact? is it because it'd be too much air for one diffuser or because media wouldn't circulate well in a tank that size? have you seen it done (ie the manifold with 4 discs) ?
      thank you for helping me make this decision
      Tom

    4. #4
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      I suggested (4) 9’’ diffusers based on their surface area and the size of Your moving bed . I have 60 liters of air feeding a single 12’’ diffuser on a bottom drain. A 12’’ diffuser has a surface area of about 113sq inches . Each 9’’ diffuser has about 63 sq inches of surface area , so about half of a 12’’ diffuser . Your using 120 liters of air in each moving bed , so You would need (2) 12’’ diffusers , or (4) 9’’ diffusers in each moving bed . I think (4) 9’’ diffusers would give you better coverage

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      I've been using 8 large air stones hanging around the perimeter of a 400 gallon tank with a Pondmaster AP-100 for over 5 years. There is excess air which I just use to feed additional stones in the pond. I always use irrigation tubing to feed the stones as it lasts forever (seemingly). Haven't done any maintenance to the air stones. About 200 gallons of k1/k3 mix. The stones are generic. Link to sample air stone follows:

      https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Stone...gateway&sr=8-1

    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by pondfishguy View Post
      I've been using 8 large air stones hanging around the perimeter of a 400 gallon tank with a Pondmaster AP-100 for over 5 years. There is excess air which I just use to feed additional stones in the pond. I always use irrigation tubing to feed the stones as it lasts forever (seemingly). Haven't done any maintenance to the air stones. About 200 gallons of k1/k3 mix. The stones are generic. Link to sample air stone follows:

      https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Stone...gateway&sr=8-1
      Thank you for your input . What do you think are the pros & cons of stones vs. Membrane diffusers? I see from your link that the air stones you got come in different shapes and sizes , which one would you say works best? The disc one ? And by irrigation tubing do you mean garden hose kind?


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    7. #7
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      If You choose to use air stones , Sweetwater are the best , and they have threaded replaceable hose barbs.
      .
      https://pentairaes.com/sweetwater-air-diffusers.html

    8. #8
      pondfishguy is offline Senior Member
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      The ones I used for my 400 gallon MBBR are the 4x2 cylinder air stone for hanging. You can adjust the flow rate by raising and lowering to adjust for tubing losses. I like 1/4 black poly irrigation tubing, the hard sort, Orbit, Rainbird, etc (Lowes, Home Depot...). If I need to make a hard 90 turn I just use an irrigation 90 degree fitting. Dip tubing in hot water before pushing over the air stone nipple. It will shrink back and never come off. Irrigation tubing also works well with 1/4" OD Tubing Quick Connect Ball Valves if you need to regulate the flow (10 packs for under $20 on eBay). You can also get multiple port distribution headers with or without valves.

      Rubber membrane diffusers put out larger bubbles, never clog and can handle much larger air volumes. I use both depending on the application. If necessary I clean the air stones in "Lime -A-Way or CLR (Calcium, Lime, and Rust Remover)"

    9. #9
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      Thanks for the tip on the drip irrigation parts , I’ve looked at the valves and fittings at lowes , and they are a lot cheaper than the typical valves and fittings that We normally use.

    10. #10
      icu2's Avatar
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      Anyone spot any problems specifically with this design?

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...75-gallon-tote
      --Steve



      Koiphen 2021 Koi Person of the Year!

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    11. #11
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Anyone spot any problems specifically with this design?

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...75-gallon-tote
      That’s perfect

    12. #12
      pondfishguy is offline Senior Member
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      It's going to move around. I would strap it to a 16x16 paver.

    13. #13
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      I don't mean to be a pain ... but, can please someone explain to me conclusively why it wouldn't work if I did it with one diffuser alone ?
      One of my vendors said that's what they do (fish hatchery) all the times, one diffuser right in the middle. I know that would save a bit of money and quite a bit of work, but would that be any good? I was thinking that with a big enough diffuser maybe the media will boil good enough .... or maybe not .... not sure if it's even worth trying ... thank you all for your input so far
      Tom

    14. #14
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      Conclusively? No.
      Try it out and if it doesn’t work add another one...that’s what most of us do.
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    15. #15
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      Four , or even two smaller diffusers , would spread the air movement out over a larger surface area . Think of it this way , the bubbles creating the lift and movement of the media ,go straight up to the surface. Most of its energy is gone when it meets the surface.

    16. #16
      lukef's Avatar
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      now just how I think...
      IF you are using the bubbles to create turbulence to clean your bio-film then more is better....
      If you are just using a difuser to saturate the water with oxygen then you have a whole other set of variables everything from pH through water temp to depth f bubbles are discharged to this to that to to to... then one will give yo almost saturation, and you don't need 100% saturation.
      Also just how much of a fish load is a key aspect to consider... think you could do with less.
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    17. #17
      lukef's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by catfish whiskers View Post
      The rubber membrane air diffusers will last forever and give more flow with less restriction . I’ve never had one clog , but they can be soaked in vinegar if they did.
      I bought the Matala brand from Seaside Aquatics , they come in 9’’ and 12’’ . They have male pipe threads on the bottom , so easy to attach to a PVC pipe frame . For Your size totes , I would use four 9’’ in each moving bed with the 120 L pump. Easiest way to weight the frame down from floating , is to place a concrete block over the frame .
      You might have to contact Tom directly as I didn’t see them on His website , https://www.koiphen.com/forums/membe...deAquatics-LLC
      .
      Here’s what they look like
      .Name:  B0D0714F-D774-4AE7-9C90-2A679A9B05E3.jpeg
Views: 299
Size:  57.0 KB
      umm that 'website"took me to his koiphen profile..I think?
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    18. #18
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by lukef View Post
      umm that 'website"took me to his koiphen profile..I think?
      Yes , that is Seasides profile Here on Koiphen . I linked to it because it is the best way to contact Tom for Koi products.

    19. #19
      ricshaw is offline Senior Member
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      This is what I used:

      The 3" one was called Atlanta Diffuser, Medium Bubble Cap, 3 in. dia.
      Graingers use to carry them.

      Name:  air diffuser.jpg
Views: 184
Size:  32.0 KB

      The big 9 inch one I got from Aquatic Eco-Systems.

      Name:  FlexAir air diffuser.png
Views: 191
Size:  217.4 KB


      member

    20. #20
      ricshaw is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
      The 3" one was called Atlanta Diffuser, Medium Bubble Cap, 3 in. dia.
      Graingers use to carry them.
      The Bubble Cap are non-clogging, self cleaning, mainly used in sewage treatment plants. I used it on an air lift experiment.

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