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    Thread: Lump on eye

    1. #1
      dragon88878 is offline Junior Member
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      Lump on eye

      Hello everyone,

      I have a koi that has a lump growth on it's eye and would like to know how to either treat it and stop the growth. It first occurred possibly around a year ago (possibly longer) and was told to put salt in the tank and drip some iodine on it. It did help and the growth turned from pinkish red to black and eventually the growth stopped. Recently the black lump looks like it's growing again with parts of the lump becoming pinkish.

      Not sure if the below would help but I'll add it anyways:
      I have changed the filter/pump to a canister from a DIY tub filter around 2 weeks ago. The old filter i used just pumps water into a pipe and the water flows into the bottom of the bucket. The water then flows through the media and flows out of the bucket and back into the tank. With the DIY filter my water pH drops 5.5 midweek and a water change is required.
      The new filter keeps the pH at around 7.5 throughout the week.

      I do apologise first, I only have a pH tester.
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    2. #2
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      If you took off the old filter when you replaced with the new filter, you probably have high ammonia. Because you don't have the test kits to tell me what is going on, I am going to do some guessing. You mentioned the other filter would cause the pH to drop to 5.5 mid week and the new filter does not, indicates the KH is probably extremely low and the pH is going through some serious cycles of pH crash. The old filter was established and the bacteria were doing serious amounts of bio filtration which in itself creates a large amount of acid which is causing the pH to drop. The new filter has not had a chance to become established and as a result, the ammonia levels are high.

      First, get liquid drop tests for ammonia, nitrite, and KH. Nitrate could be beneficial also. If the KH is low, (suspected), add baking soda with water changes to bring the KH to a value of at least 100ppm (6 drops) with up to 200ppm being acceptable. This will stabilize the pH, value probably about 8.3. If there is ammonia, (suspected), then treat with Prime, Safe, Cloram-X, or similar ammonia binding dechlor product, and get the SeaChem Ammonia Alert Card to show the toxicity of the ammonia to know when to add additional binder.

      I don't know but based on information given, the low pH is acid and causes burns, and the ammonia also causes burns so the bump on the eye may be attributed to these factors. Since, no matter what we do, the fish needs to be in the best water, correcting the water problems needs to come first to stop any further damage and then provide for the best healing environment.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    3. #3
      dragon88878 is offline Junior Member
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      Thanks RichToyBox,

      I have ran the old filter and the new filter at the same time around 1 week and a half before removing the old. Can't say for sure if this is long enough. I have done a water change on Friday and added 10ml of Prime. Based off last week's pH results, the pH was at a steady 7.5. I have checked the pH today and it's also 7.5. I will be ordering a water test kit soon but in the meantime, how should i monitor?

      Also, what is that lump called and what are the causes?

      Many Thanks

    4. #4
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      I am not sure of the cause or treatment for the eye, but it seems strange that it would exacerbate at the same time as the old filter was removed. I would get the SeaChem Ammonia Alert Card and use it to monitor the toxic ammonia and treat with Prime to neutralize the toxic ammonia by converting it to non-toxic ammonium. Based on the length of time that the problem has been present on the eye, I would suspect a benign tumor/cyst, but if it continues to get worse instead of better once the water is working for the fish instead of working against the health of the fish, then we can see if anyone has any suggestions.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
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      Richard

    5. #5
      dragon88878 is offline Junior Member
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      Thanks RichToyBox,
      I have went to an aquarium shop to do a water test and saw that everything was high except for pH (which is good). Ammonia, Nitrite and Phosphate is high and was recommended a water change. The shop owner also informed that the cause is most likely the canister filter still being pretty new and not well established yet.

      At the moment how often should my water changes be until my canister is better established? I have performed a water change last Friday and it's Monday today.

      Many Thanks for the advice and information!!!

    6. #6
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      Water changes are good at any time, but water changes alone will not help. You will need about 1 pound of salt per 100 gallons (0.12% plus or minus) to protect from the nitrites, and the ammonia alert card to notify you of the toxicity of the ammonia. With the pH being somewhat stable, you are alright, but once the filter starts to convert the ammonia and nitrites, then if the KH (alkalinity) is not high enough, you will find the pH crashing. I consider the KH test probably the most important test for established ponds/aquaria as if it is high enough, everything else will be good. If it is consumed the pH will crash and the ammonia eating and nitrite eating bacteria will be killed off and the values will skyrocket. For new systems that have ammonia and nitrite issues, then those tests become more important than in established systems. Nitrate is valuable only for determining the time the bacteria are ramping up, where in the cycle they are. There is little or nothing that can be done with phosphate, at least for ponds, so it is what it is, and most of it comes from the tap water, not the fish or pond.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    7. #7
      dragon88878 is offline Junior Member
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      Hello RichToyBox,
      I will be performing a water change once every 2 days with added salt and prime. So hopefully that will help. I have made an order for the API Freshwater Master Test Kit and waiting for it to arrive. Been holding off too long and i know that this is one of those must have things. "Nitrate is valuable only for determining the time the bacteria are ramping up, where in the cycle they are.", so does this tell me if the filter is better established?

    8. #8
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      Until nitrates show up, the cycle is very early in its development. First there has to be ammonia to feed the ammonia converting bacteria, which create the nitrites. Until there is nitrite, there is no need for the nitrite converting bacteria, but once they start to develop, they will produce the nitrates. Once nitrates start to show up, then you have a good idea that the cycle is nearing balance. The reason I state balance, is that the population of each type of bacteria is in constant flux, depending on the production of the appropriate food. As the fish get larger, the amount of food needed increases, and the amount of waste increases, but let the fish go hungry for a few days or weeks, and the population of bacteria will reduce due to a lack of food. The true end of the cycle is when the ammonia and nitrite are non-detectable, not when nitrate shows up.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    9. #9
      dragon88878 is offline Junior Member
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      Nothing much to update but I'm a little bit confused at the moment regarding water quality and understanding how koi reacts to it. Not sure if I should make a new post or use existing.I did a water test just now......didn't record it but it's similar to last week's results.
      pH 7.8
      Ammonia 2.0
      Nitrite 0.5
      Nitrate 10ppm (might be higher)
      Yes, I understand the results are showing the water is bad and I have been performing water changes with Prime and salt every 2 days. To me the kois seems to be acting normally, happily swimming around the tank and very excited when it's about feeding time. A while back when I had a massive ammonia spike......there were signs.....kois not eating and eventually dying. I don't have those water quality results from that incident but the aquarium shop keeper told me to change the water immediately and to add quick start, prime etc......

      So in this case, this got me confused.......BUT it is good that the kois is excited to see me when I walk passed and swimming normally (no sudden jolts, swimming out of control....) around the tank.
      Last edited by dragon88878; 4 Weeks Ago at 01:15 AM.

    10. #10
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      If your water quality results are similar and still showing ammonia and nitrite, your filter is just not large enough for the load. Your water changes, Prime and salt are protecting the fish, but if additional filtration were added, the numbers would improve and the need for frequent water changes would diminish. Don't remove the filtration that you have, but add more. If you add a larger filter, after the numbers get to be good, then you can remove the old filter if you want, but get the new filter on line and the numbers to zero on ammonia and nitrite before removing the old, as it is doing something, just not enough.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

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