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  • Results 1 to 14 of 14

    Thread: Does This Mutt Have Columnaris a Fungus or something else?

    1. #1
      HarleysnKoi is offline Junior Member
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      Does This Mutt Have Columnaris a Fungus or something else?

      Hello all, Iím new to the site and assisting a friend with koi fish. Iím their other daddy lol.

      So, we have had a lot of problems tank raising these guys. Originally they were supposed to be pond fish. Right now theyíre in tanks for the winter. But we have had a lot of trouble with the water quality. Itís been pretty bad and to make matters worse I got my friend five new koi to add onto his koi. So this little guy (see pics below) is Pumpkin. An adorable mutt. Pumpkin has had problems with fin clamp. When I met the breeder of koi to pick out some Christmas present koi for my friend I mentioned this to the breeder and he suggested putting hydrogen peroxide in as he thought it may be parasites. Now, pumpkin has a waxy sheen on his back by the dorsal fin and I noticed it around 4 weeks ago. I figured it was part of his charm. Now I am not so sure.

      We have had frequent battles with water quality and an issue with an Asagi and an issue with a Kohaku and the help of many kind users of koiphen told me to divide the fish up due to overcrowding. I removed Pumpkin along with the Kohaku giving me problems and a small sanke and put the three in a 15 gallon tank. I have been learning more-and-more about koi over the last 72 hours and their diseases. While I was trying to help the Asagi I was reading up on Columnaris and a light went off in my head in regards to Pumpkin. I went to look at him and noticed the sanke nipping at him.

      Prior to the addition of the tank mates back in the main tank Pumpkin would sometimes float up at an angle with his fins clamped. After I started adding hydrogen peroxide on December 17th and he stopped clamping his fins the next day and seemed normal. When I introduced his tank mates on Christmas Eve he was super excited and continued to behave normally. He has since been clamped since I moved him to the 15 gallon tank (Dec 27th). I have seen him on the bottom but heís usually swimming in the middle of the tank.

      Coupled with the photos of this adorable guy as well as what Iíve told you folks, what do you think? Columnaris? Fungus? Or is this just part of Pumpkinís coating?

      Thanks in advance for the love. (Heís a sweet boy and Iíd love to see him grow up).
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      Last edited by HarleysnKoi; 12-28-2018 at 02:30 AM.

    2. #2
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      It could simply be excess slime coat because your ammonia levels are very high. I know you are binding ammonia but, if you don’t do it well enough, they will still be affected by it and slime coat production is usually a first line of defense.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    3. #3
      HarleysnKoi is offline Junior Member
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      Hello Russel and thank you for your response! I hope that’s all it is! I feel a bit more hopeful.

    4. #4
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is online now Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
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      Do you have numbers for levels of ammonia, nitrite, pH, and KH? Those would give more info
      rather than general trouble with water quality.

      Sounds like maybe you've already been talking to Russ so listen to him. Only thing I'd add
      is remember that ammonia binder is only effective for about 48 hours.
      --Steve
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    5. #5
      HarleysnKoi is offline Junior Member
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      Hello icu and thanks for your input. I am definitely listening to Rich and any help you guys can offer! Here are water readings from yesterday. These were our first readings:

      38 gallon tank with an Asagi, two Kohaku and two mutts: pH 7.6, high range pH 7.4, NH3/NH4 1ppm, NO2 5, NO2 40-80, kH 40. (Previously all nine were in there. As of yesterday I took three out).

      15 gallon tank with a sanke, a kohaku and a mutt (Pumpkin): pH 7.6, high range pH 7.4, NH3/NH4 1ppm, NO2 0, NO3 0, kH 80.

      The 15 gal tank was just used for tank changes prior to yesterday. Yesterday the three were moved there to help with over crowding.

      So unfortunately I don’t have water readings from before yesterday. Pumpkin was living in the big tank with three tank mates, and with the new tank mates for a total of nine. Now he’s in with two others. Hope this helps you.

    6. #6
      HarleysnKoi is offline Junior Member
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      Oh, and thank you for the info on the ammonia binder! I didn’t know it lasted for only 48 hours! Yipe!

    7. #7
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      You will have a difficult time keeping your water clean with such small tanks over the winter, even with constant water changes. The 38 is barely suitable for a pair of goldfish and the 15 only for small tropicals. Bare minimum for your 9 koi, would be a 100 g. stock tank with, at the very least, a large cannister filter and a bare botton with no decorations so it is easier to siphon debris.
      There are many good DIY threads of folks with indoor and temporary tanks that would give you some better ideas of proper filtration.
      I fear you are in for a lot of illness and death with your current set up.
      Last edited by GoldieGirl; 12-28-2018 at 04:15 PM.
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    8. #8
      HarleysnKoi is offline Junior Member
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      Hey goldenkoigirl. Thank you for your input. That makes me very sad to read. Goodness.

    9. #9
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      I don't know if you have the ammonia alert card by Seachem or not, but it will show the toxicity of the ammonia, where the ammonia test kit just shows the total ammonia and ammonium. If it is showing toxic, then additional ammonia binder is needed to bring it into the non-toxic form. The coating on the fish is increased slime coat and is an indicator of there being an irritant. The irritant can be something like very low pH causing acid burns, very high pH causing alkali burns, high unbound ammonia (think of the burning of your nose at the smell of household ammonia), or it could be parasites. First impression with the numbers you are showing is high ammonia. As the binders are consumed, the toxic ammonia will build again, so it is a constant chore to keep it bound and the ammonia alert card will help with that.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by GoldieGirl View Post
      You will have a difficult time keeping your water clean with such small tanks over the winter, even with constant water changes. The 38 is barely suitable for a pair of goldfish and the 15 only for small tropicals. Bare minimum for your 9 koi, would be a 100 g. stock tank with, at the very least, a large cannister filter and a bare botton with no decorations so it is easier to siphon debris.
      There are many good DIY threads of folks with indoor and temporary tanks that would give you some better ideas of proper filtration.
      I fear you are in for a lot of illness and death with your current set up.
      That's just ridiculous. If the tank were cycled, then it's more than enough space for all the fish(considering their current size). A goldfish bowl is barely suitable for a pair of goldfish.

      Of course like you say, it's harder to maintain clean healthy water with all the gravel and decorations. It takes up a lot of swimming spaces too.
      It just depends on the owner's priorities. Is the tank there to make theirself happy or the fish happy?

      I often hear about new fish keepers worrying about their wet pets getting bored in a bare-bottom, decoration-free tank...
      They're already in an unnatural environment being trapped in a clear box, so might as well take away the rocks & castles for easier maintenance for the caretaker.

    11. #11
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      Six growing koi in a 38gal. and three in 15gal. with a couple of HOB filters? I stand by my opinion - not saying impossible to keep, but very difficult, especially while battling health issues. As a beginner, the OP would certainly benefit from the advice of moving the fish to more water and to improve the filtration for overwintering indoors.
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    12. #12
      koinoober's Avatar
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      I would suggest getting a canister filter and to replace your HOB power filter, once the tank settles down. HOB's make initial setup very easy but they don't function very well long-term, especially because you have to replace those cartridges regularly. And I'm not a fan of the carbon that's usually filled in the cartridges.

      API Filstar, Fluval, Eheim...it depends on what your budget is but you can get a decent canister filter by API for about $150. And with filters & pumps, remember to oversize them. You don't want a filter rated for 40 gallons running on a 40 gallon tank. Koi are very messy fish so I'd turn over the water about ten times an hour if I were you.

      I personally run a API Filtar XP3(now XP-L) on a 40 gallon tank and fill the media baskets with ceramic rings.

      As long as you don't try to grow your Koi and purposely stunt them("bonsai" koi), they should be fine in a tank that size if you have adequate filtration.
      And I'd lose the gravel and decorations if I were you.

    13. #13
      DarkStar is online now Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by HarleysnKoi View Post
      Hello icu and thanks for your input. I am definitely listening to Rich and any help you guys can offer! Here are water readings from yesterday. These were our first readings:

      38 gallon tank with an Asagi, two Kohaku and two mutts: pH 7.6, high range pH 7.4, NH3/NH4 1ppm, NO2 5, NO2 40-80, kH 40. (Previously all nine were in there. As of yesterday I took three out).

      15 gallon tank with a sanke, a kohaku and a mutt (Pumpkin): pH 7.6, high range pH 7.4, NH3/NH4 1ppm, NO2 0, NO3 0, kH 80.

      The 15 gal tank was just used for tank changes prior to yesterday. Yesterday the three were moved there to help with over crowding.

      So unfortunately I donít have water readings from before yesterday. Pumpkin was living in the big tank with three tank mates, and with the new tank mates for a total of nine. Now heís in with two others. Hope this helps you.
      Hi HarleysnKoi, First ~ Welcome to the Forum!

      Do you have an area like in a garage or basement where you could put a stock tank and get them out of the tiny aquariums? If you could set up something like that with a bigger filter that would probably help a great deal with your water issues, cleaning and crowding. Anyone have suggestions for a cheap 100-150 gallon q-tank? < Maybe post the question on the Main Forum. That should do the trick for winter with a filter upgrade.
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    14. #14
      koinoober's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
      Hi HarleysnKoi, First ~ Welcome to the Forum!

      Do you have an area like in a garage or basement where you could put a stock tank and get them out of the tiny aquariums? If you could set up something like that with a bigger filter that would probably help a great deal with your water issues, cleaning and crowding. Anyone have suggestions for a cheap 100-150 gallon q-tank? < Maybe post the question on the Main Forum. That should do the trick for winter with a filter upgrade.
      For the price of a stock tank, the OP can buy a canister filter and get it over with. Due note that this is a junior member so they're probably on a very limited budget. And how will the new stock tank be filtered? The power filter is going to be essentially useless on a 100 gallon tank so that's more money that has to be spent.

      If they lose any fish while the filter cycles...well then it's part of the learning curve. Lesson learned the hard way.


      PS: I don't see any Asagi in that tank. What you're referring to in your other thread is probably a Platinum Ogon. Asagi have clear/beige colored fins with usually a bit of red at the base, but the one you posted has a shiny metallic white fin.

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