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    Thread: Probable Bacterial Infection - Looking for SoCal supplier of Sabbactisun

    1. #1
      Vettezuki is offline Member
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      Probable Bacterial Infection - Looking for SoCal supplier of Sabbactisun

      Howdy,

      I have one Koi in a pond of otherwise healthy fish that is exhibiting symptoms that seem to indicate he has a bacterial infection. Bulging scales, kind of swollen body, sickly looking dorsal fin, no apparent appetite.

      I have read that Sabbactisun is a good treatment, even if it only helps prevent the spread of bacteria to the other fish. Unfortunately, with Amazon it would take a week to get here in SoCal. The major stores don't carry it at all.

      So I'm looking for either a local off the shelf supplier, or an alternative. I'll try to get some video tomorrow of the Koi in question.

      Any guidance, much appreciated.

    2. #2
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      Looks like PetSmart carries API MelafFix. Maybe it's not as good, but the reviews are pretty good. I'll try that.

    3. #3
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      Hi, Google Dr.Erik Johnson's Dropsy Koivet.com

      Good luck,

      Garfield
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    4. #4
      icu2's Avatar
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      Honestly I'd skip the Melafix. It makes the water smell good but little else imho.
      A picture would help a lot with trying to help diagnose it's problem along with water tests for ammonia,
      nitrite, nitrate, pH and KH.
      But just going by the description of the bulging scales and swollen body it sounds like the
      kidney's might be failing and it's having a hard time expelling water. I'd isolate the fish
      in another tank and raise the salt level to .9% which should make osmotic regulation a lot
      easier and help the fish be able to expel excess water. It won't cure any infection but it might
      help until you can find something that will.

      Pictures though would be the best to help more knowledgeable people assist!
      --Steve
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      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    5. #5
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      +1 on what Steve posted, get it into a tank of clean water salted to .9 and raise the heat to 75 gradually, no more than 2 per hour. There are a ton of koi club people in SoCal who would be happy to help you as well. Skip the Melafix, it's a total waste of money.

      Other things you can do are oxolinic acid baths if you can find a small amount of oxolinic acid; this fish may need injections of antibiotics but the dropsy needs to be dealt with immediately.
      Mary

    6. #6
      ademink's Avatar
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      You can also dip in Tricide-Neo, if you are able to find it. Just offering more alternatives.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    7. #7
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      If there are any red scales on kois body (check underneath koi as well) due to infection. You should euthanize. Sorry
      This stage probably is at an advanced stage of septic. Once they stop eating. It's over. Just my experience

    8. #8
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      Thanks for the tips.

      So maybe good news in a bad way, is that I foolishly haven't checked the water in a while. Fish were behaving fine except this one form some days ago. So I started today by checking the water. Ammonia is literally off the scale of the testing kit. So I spent today focused on cleaning the pond as best I could. Then I flushed as much water as I dare, perhaps a 100+ galloons in a pond over 1,000 galloons. I also used an ammonia treatment. I'll check again tomorrow and flush repeatedly until the numbers go down. I also put in some pond salt. I never put salt in before and I got the pond with the house about three years ago. The amount I put in was for like 300 galloons, so I figure it will either do nothing or perhaps help a little bit. I may be imagining, but the sick koi seemed to be a little more energetic even just after this process. I'll see in the morning. Fingers crossed.


      I understand the "whats" of separating, and salt, etc., but I'm not clear on the hows and have zero experience. So I'd have to find someone to help, and I suspect Christmas Eve and Christmas are going to be difficult at best. So hopefully, just the pond cleaning and water cycling will help. This Koi has done similar things before, and then snapped right out of it. But this time is different. Please take a look and LMK what you think.


      https://youtu.be/OlHH0RLwgTU

      NOTE: We got this water garden style pond with the house when bought it. I knew nothing about Koi, and still don't know much. I have on the advice of others removed rocks and whatnot. I have most of the equipment to retrofit some much better filtration, but I still need a pad for the equipment, electrical work, trenching, etc. I will elevate this as a priority. I need something that works better with less manual labor. I don't like sick critters. Bums me out.

    9. #9
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      Hard to tell by vid but your koi looks like it may not have bacterial issue. The eyes do not look that bad. You really should do a 50% water change and add ammonia binder. Salt at .03 and see what happens. Clean water is very important for recovery.

    10. #10
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      Some other notes. PH here in Riverside (and measured in the pond) is very high. Well above 9. Nitrates seem on the lowest end of the spectrum. Phosphates are kind of hard to read because the sample is cloudy. But I'd put it on the low/moderately low end of the spectrum. It's Ammonia that's clearly sideways.

      I need to get a thermometer, but I'd guess water is in the 50s.

    11. #11
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      Thank you KDH. I did <=10% exchange today and put in Ammonia binder.

      I'll see if I can get a salinity test and mix salt up to .03.

      For 50% change, I'm guessing I'll need water conditioner to deal with the chlorine?


      (Note video is available in HD on YT, but you may have to set it. It's much more clear . . relatively speaking.)
      Last edited by Vettezuki; 12-24-2018 at 12:20 AM.

    12. #12
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      Yes you well need a binder. I remember many years ago there was a koi dealer in Riverside I visited a couple of times. I believe it is called Harrisons but do not remember for sure. You should look him up and see if he can help and supply you with what you need. Also try to find a local koi club to learn about koi and koi health. Koiphen also offers classes for koi. Clean water is very important for symptoms such as yours.

    13. #13
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      Thank you. I'll be joining the "Inland Empire Koi Society" shortly: http://inlandkoisociety.org/.

    14. #14
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Vettezuki View Post
      Thank you. I'll be joining the "Inland Empire Koi Society" shortly: http://inlandkoisociety.org/.
      I would get a hold of them asap and they might have a person that can come out and evaluate your system and help with your koi. Enjoy the new club. It well be educational.

    15. #15
      icu2's Avatar
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      I didn't see what ammonia treatment you'd used but a couple of good ones that will
      treat harmful (NH4) ammonia and chloramine used in a lot of municipal water is called Prime or Safe.
      Many local pet stores carry it.
      --Steve
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      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    16. #16
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      Steve,

      It was TopFin. My local PetSmart mostly just carries TopFin and API in their aquatic section. I'll check around tomorrow. Per kdh, I'm going to condition and flush estimated 50% tomorrow. Hopefully the lil fella can hold on for a little longer while I clean his environment.

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      Steve,

      I do have the benefit of living close to an Amazon fulfillment center, so I can get one day delivery of Prime, though it may not show up until the evening. Is it a superior product to TopFin? Maybe I can cycle another 5% in the morning and do other cleaning, and the big fluish in the night if its a better product. We're talking about the difference of 12 hours here between getting TopFin at PetSmart, or Prime by Amazon.

    18. #18
      icu2's Avatar
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      I wish I could say one way or the other, but I've never used the TopFin product so it might be just as good.
      Maybe someone here has used both and can give an objective opinion?
      --Steve
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      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    19. #19
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      please call Harrison koi in Riverside. I am sure they can help you. They have been around for decades and are familiar with your water and area.

    20. #20
      ademink's Avatar
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      In my experience, topfin is a chlorine neutralizer, not an ammonia binder. Prime or safe are superior because they will also block the harmful effects of nitrite.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



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