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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
    Results 21 to 28 of 28

    Thread: Is champkoi.com the best place to purchase high class koi?

    1. #21
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by A1Koi View Post
      We follow very strict quarantine protocols along with khv testing before and after fish arrive from japan.
      I just want to point out that there is some information being posted here that just isn't true. There is no way any US dealers KHV test their Koi before they arrive from Japan and to post that they do is irresponsible and just not being truthful. In order for breeders to be able to have their Koi imported into the US they must be certified KHV free by testing their Koi. Most breeders test 6 Koi two times a year for them to have this status. This is 12 Koi that are tested and for any dealer to say that this is KHV testing before their Koi arrive from Japan is wrong. If a breeder tests 12 Koi per year, and they sell 50,000 Koi then they could have KHV and not know it as testing 0.00001% of their Koi does not even come close to the numbers required to sample enough Koi to get a true representation. If a breeder sells 50,000 Koi then he needs to test at least 3,000 of his Koi.

      KHV is a serious matter and it has struck again in England, India and the US that I know of, so if you are a dealer and you truly care about your customers then post your results, the kind of testing you are doing, and tell us the percentage of the Koi you are testing. Show us your QT systems and tell us what you do and how you seperate your Koi. On my last shipment I tested 40% of my Koi by doing gill snips and PCR testing after heating them all to 74 degrees for 30 days. We are now in the process of building a new QT facility so that we can have an additional 12-15 tanks to separate, QT, and test our imports before they are shipped out to our customers.
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      Last edited by Russell Peters; 12-26-2018 at 11:55 PM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      I just want to point out that there is some information being posted here that just isn't true. There is no way any US dealers KHV test their Koi before they arrive from Japan and to post that they do is irresponsible and just not being truthful. In order for breeders to be able to have their Koi imported into the US they must be certified KHV free by testing their Koi. Most breeders test 6 Koi two times a year for them to have this status. This is 12 Koi that are tested and for any dealer to say that this is KHV testing before their Koi arrive from Japan is wrong. If a breeder tests 12 Koi per year, and they sell 50,000 Koi then they could have KHV and not know it as testing 0.00001% of their Koi does not even come close to the numbers required to sample enough Koi to get a true representation. If a breeder sells 50,000 Koi then he needs to test at least 3,000 of his Koi.

      KHV is a serious matter and it has struck again in England, India and the US that I know of, so if you are a dealer and you truly care about your customers then post your results, the kind of testing you are doing, and tell us the percentage of the Koi you are testing. Show us your QT systems and tell us what you do and how you seperate your Koi. On my last shipment I tested 40% of my Koi by doing gill snips and PCR testing after heating them all to 74 degrees for 30 days. We are now in the process of building a new QT facility so that we can have an additional 12-15 tanks to separate, QT, and test our imports before they are shipped out to our customers.
      I've got fish from him and yes the fish were tested for khv and all was clear. My koi are still thriving
      Last edited by kevin32; 12-27-2018 at 08:49 PM.

    3. #23
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      I think if a dealer is going to advertise that they test for KHV then they should describe their QT protocol, say what kind of KHV testing they are doing, tell how many Koi they have and how many were tested, and then post the results. If they don’t do this then saying they test for KHV has no meaning.

      The type of testing you do is also very important. There is a dealer/handler, in the Pacific Northwest that only did ELISA testing without heating the Koi to temperature, 74 is ideal, and tested within days of getting the Koi. He had customers get KHV, it was undeniable, but kept insisting that it wasn’t from him because all his tests were negative. He was told to submit Koi for a full necropsy so PCR testing could be done. He resisted for four months but finally did it and got positive results.

      It is actually very easy to get false negative results when doing ELISA testing if they are not done under the right conditions. In fact, false negatives are way more common than false positives. In order for it to be more accurate the Koi need to be heated for four to six weeks, at a temperature that will activate the virus, before testing. Even then it is not the most accurate testing available.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    4. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by A1Koi
      We follow very strict quarantine protocols along with khv testing before and after fish arrive from japan.
      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      I just want to point out that there is some information being posted here that just isn't true. There is no way any US dealers KHV test their Koi before they arrive from Japan and to post that they do is irresponsible and just not being truthful.
      It really shows how honest & reliable a dealer is when they delete their posts like that...
      I was also curious how A1Koi was able to acquire new tosai at this time of year...Most breeders that I know of are reluctant on releasing true tosai with the nisai shipment as they aren't supposed to experience winter temperatures the year they are born. Even if the breeder has no plan on releasing them into the mud ponds in the Spring, this is the time where they can purposely expose the fish to certain viruses(sleeping disease for example) to boost their immunity.

      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      I've got fish from him and yes the fish were tested for khv and all was clear. My koi are still thriving
      You also are contributing to the problem when you irresponsibly claim your fish are KHV-free. Just because yours are thriving, doesn't mean they aren't diseased. How else could dealers that only import Japanese Koi get hit with KHV? I'm pretty sure those fish were "thriving" as well when they were in Japan. Unless of course a breeder knew that his fish had KHV and deliberately shipped them out...which I HIGHLY doubt one would do.

      I also remember in the summer that you were suspecting a very famous Japanese farm of having KHV, without any evidence to back up your statement. This really made me furious as they actually were one of the farms that was hit in the major breakout that occurred about 10 years ago. It's not just fish that died from KHV...people have died over it as well, so this topic is something that needs to be taken VERY seriously.


      And to the OP, all I could say is to stop listening to the post-addicts...they truly have no clue what they are talking about.

    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by tamatamane View Post
      It really shows how honest & reliable a dealer is when they delete their posts like that...
      To clarify A1 Koi did not delete his post. It was moderated due to being ruled against TOS for advertising.
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    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      To clarify A1 Koi did not delete his post. It was moderated due to being ruled against TOS for advertising.
      My apologies to A1Koi then.
      But I'm still curious about their tosai. I remember seeing lots of big names that I've never seen as tosai...at least in the US. Most tosai that come to the US are from mass producers like Ogata, Yamasan, Suda, Koda, and Marusei...but they only ship them out in the early Spring. At least that was the case back when I was an agent.

      Edit: I just checked the list and the farms I'm talking about are Sakai, Dainichi, Sekiguchi, Maruhiro, Aoki, and Tamura.
      I take Sakai is SFF, but not sure about which "Aoki" is being mentioned(A.O. Aokiya the metallic/oddball specialist or simply Aoki Koi Farm). I don't recognize Tamura but I'm guessing it's Tamaura down in Hiroshima?
      Of course they all sell tiny "tosai" and not just "jumbo tosai", but again I've almost never seen them make it out to the US market, and especially at this time of year.
      Last edited by tamatamane; 12-28-2018 at 04:20 AM.

    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by tamatamane View Post
      It really shows how honest & reliable a dealer is when they delete their posts like that...
      I was also curious how A1Koi was able to acquire new tosai at this time of year...Most breeders that I know of are reluctant on releasing true tosai with the nisai shipment as they aren't supposed to experience winter temperatures the year they are born. Even if the breeder has no plan on releasing them into the mud ponds in the Spring, this is the time where they can purposely expose the fish to certain viruses(sleeping disease for example) to boost their immunity.


      You also are contributing to the problem when you irresponsibly claim your fish are KHV-free. Just because yours are thriving, doesn't mean they aren't diseased. How else could dealers that only import Japanese Koi get hit with KHV? I'm pretty sure those fish were "thriving" as well when they were in Japan. Unless of course a breeder knew that his fish had KHV and deliberately shipped them out...which I HIGHLY doubt one would do.

      I also remember in the summer that you were suspecting a very famous Japanese farm of having KHV, without any evidence to back up your statement. This really made me furious as they actually were one of the farms that was hit in the major breakout that occurred about 10 years ago. It's not just fish that died from KHV...people have died over it as well, so this topic is something that needs to be taken VERY seriously.


      And to the OP, all I could say is to stop listening to the post-addicts...they truly have no clue what they are talking about.
      I did say something and did not name a specific breeder. You sent me a PM asking who I was referring to and I did not bother to respond to it. I do take khv seriously and did not say my fish do not have khv. I said they are all healthy and thriving. Some from a1 and others from genki. Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way. Also your post about people dying over it is totally uncalled for.
      Last edited by kevin32; 12-28-2018 at 11:28 PM.

    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      I did say something and did not name a specific breeder. You sent me a PM asking who I was referring to and I did not bother to respond to it. I do take khv seriously and did not say my fish do not have khv. I said they are all healthy and thriving. Some from a1 and others from genki. Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way. Also your post about people dying over it is totally uncalled for.
      I don't want to detail this thread so I'll make this my last post.
      To clarify, you DID name a specific breeder in a public post, and I PM'd you asking WHERE you got that information & WHO your dealer was or whether you were just speculating.
      Get your facts right.

      And what I mentioned wasn't "totally uncalled for". You haven't been around long enough to know what I'm talking about...it's that serious.
      Just "trusting" your dealer and not quarantining new fish when you buy so much from all over the place, just shows how serious you really take KHV.


      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Well said. Hey I can't even post in the er section. Many feel i should be able to now. I just try to help all I can
      I'm also curious to the "many" people who feel this way, because they clearly have no idea either. You're not helping anybody when you post whatever you just learned a minute ago as if it's a regime you've been successfully doing for decades...
      I can tell that you're a nice guy...but if you really want to help, stop typing so much gibberish and read up(not just on forums) and learn at a local club meeting or two.

      The most knowledgeable (koi handlers) are the ones that aren't so eager to share their opinions...whether online or in-person. Heck, I'm pretty sure none of the Japanese breeders who know Koi best, know about this site!
      Last edited by tamatamane; 12-29-2018 at 08:11 PM.

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