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    Thread: Low-Profile Shower Filter

    1. #21
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      Last edited by IAmHolland; 09-20-2018 at 12:52 AM.

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      Surprised after all of the build data and successful installs posted on Europeon sites such as https://www.koivrienden.com nobody in the US is building with airlifts. Even the FF Pro can't compete with the efficiency.
      Apples and oranges. For a true comparison, compare the FF Pro and air-lift and see which is more efficient at pumping 8000 gph 12 inches vertically. Air-lift only work efficiently for lifting water 0-2".
      Last edited by kimini; 04-07-2019 at 05:10 PM.

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      But for a low head pump a 1.5 ft high shower will get more flow from the pump vs a 6 foot high one due to 4.5 ft difference in head pressure. For the FF series this flow difference will be substantial and will compensate somewhat. Maybe the ERIC filters were on to something?
      I was just talking to don today at genki kois facility. He felt the Eric filters were good but just never caught on. I think he may have renamed them but not for sure. He builds the showers that genki sells.

    4. #24
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      They are basically saying with certain media you get more surface area so you could have a 6 inch deep tier and provide as much as s 12 inch tier with say a ceramic media or even feather rock. I can't really say as I've never used a very low profile setup. Don says the bio home media has lots of surface area and wont break down like ceramic media from china

    5. #25
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      I correct my post and don wondered if the ceramic will break down. He didnt say it will break down but he had some concerns. I'm using the China ceramic I hope it holds up unlike cermedia

    6. #26
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      In my opinion, a well running shower should have enough agitation to generate foam from DOCs. While the off-gassing of dissolved ammonia is debated (and in my opinion unsupported), it is less debatable that high flow can separate DOCs from water. Just look at foam fractionators and protein skimmers. Even if you can't see the foam, the separation happens at the microscopic level. This is because the mixing of water with air reduces surface tension and allows hydrophobic or denatured proteins, from partially broken down food and fish waste, to form a layer on the bubbles and on the surface of water.

      Protein skimmers have been said to reduce DOC levels only by around 20%- this is because only the DOCs in the form of a stable foam is removed. This is where the biomedia of showers come in. Because the DOCs are partially separated from the water column, they are much more likely to stick to the crevices of the biomedia where it can be broken down more efficiently by microbial decomposers, rather than flow away with the rest of the water column. Perhaps the decomposition of DOCs is where the ammonia smell comes from, just like the smell of a properly functioning compost pile.

      So to design an efficient shower, there are two opposing factors- agitation caused by flow and available surface of biomedia. Why not have both? Just connect the output of a half-height foam fractionator containing biobarrels directly to the manifold of a trickle filter containing a single layer of ceramic media. The foam fractionator part would have a small cross-sectional area to maximize flow, and the trickle filter would be wide to maximize available surface area.

      This doesn't directly solve the problem of high head, but I think with a more efficient shower, you can get away with less flow overall. Ethan's phoam phractionators on this forum only need 1500 gph to generate foam because the flow is focused over a 6 inch diameter cross section. If it is followed by a well-designed shower manifold like the ones that Zac makes, you can trickle that amount of water over a lot of media.

      In my opinion, we can think beyond nitrification and flow rates to build more efficient biofilters.

    7. #27
      ricshaw is offline Supporting Member
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      I do not have a problem with people building a low-profile shower filters to accommodate energy efficient pumps. I have a friend who is doing exactly that.
      The problem I have is somebody building a low-profile shower filter and then saying they disproving the benefits or a traditionally stacked trays shower filter.


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    8. #28
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      Last edited by IAmHolland; 09-20-2018 at 12:50 AM.

    9. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
      ...The problem I have is somebody building a low-profile shower filter and then saying they disproving the benefits or a traditionally stacked trays shower filter.
      This thread was created to show what I'm doing, reporting back the resulting water quality, regardless of what it is. So, if water quality isn't perfect, will I hear, "well obviously it's because you didn't build a real shower filter." On the other hand, if the water is perfect, will I be accused of insulting traditionally stacked trays shower filter? Okay.

    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      This thread was created to show what I'm doing, reporting back the resulting water quality, regardless of what it is. So, if water quality isn't perfect, will I hear, "well obviously it's because you didn't build a real shower filter." On the other hand, if the water is perfect, will I be accused of insulting traditionally stacked trays shower filter? Okay.
      Yes, "Because you did not build a traditionally stacked shower filter with proper flow"

      No, You will not be accused of insulting traditionally stacked shower filters.

      BTW: I think low-profile showers and moving bed filters are a good alternative to the traditionally stacked shower filters.


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    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by IAmHolland View Post
      Why not have a shower with pipe outlets instead of a waterfall, and build one of the outlets as a FF?
      Why not have a shower with pipe outlets instead of a waterfall? That is already being done.

      Why not build one of the outlets as a Foam Fractionator? The problem is you lose bubble/foam collecting efficiency in the open bottom tray.


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    12. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by IAmHolland View Post
      Why not have a shower with pipe outlets instead of a waterfall, and build one of the outlets as a FF? Wouldn't the shower aspect do the same as the bio ball tower?
      These are the outlets from my shower... I don't use them as FF any more since it no longer produces any foam:

      Name:  shower foam fractionator.jpg
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    13. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by IAmHolland View Post
      Why not have a shower with pipe outlets instead of a waterfall, and build one of the outlets as a FF? Wouldn't the shower aspect do the same as the bio ball tower?
      As others have said, people have tried this before. But it would take a lot of flow/pressure to match the FF's foam production efficiency in a traditional shower. One would also have to make sure the foam doesn't dwell too long at the bottom of the shower.

      My point is that with an ideal shower, you eventually wouldn't need a FF outlet because the components of the foam are broken down quickly by decomposers and then immediately nitrified by the nitrifiers, all on the surface of the ceramic media. The hybrid FF/shower that I'm suggesting might be able to accomplish some of this with less flow because that flow is initially focused over a small cross-sectional area, i.e. more turbulence. The 'bottom tray' would be wide and filled with ceramic media just like a traditional shower. I don't think you would even need the FF foam-outlet in between. Hopefully I can get some time to test this idea in the near future.
      Last edited by bravetang8; 09-16-2018 at 03:30 PM.

    14. #34
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      Those are some crazy electric rates. So I won't mention that I just locked in at .058 cents fixed for 3 years with no fees.

    15. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mild Bill View Post
      Those are some crazy electric rates. So I won't mention that I just locked in at .058 cents fixed for 3 years with no fees.
      We get nailed on everything here in ca. Pacific gas and electric is a joke though and making a fortune off us. I also pay alot for water and we send our water down south and charge them even more and we are in a drought lmao

    16. #36
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      Last edited by IAmHolland; 09-20-2018 at 12:49 AM.

    17. #37
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      Last edited by IAmHolland; 09-20-2018 at 12:48 AM.

    18. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by IAmHolland View Post
      I've been staring at this picture for 20 minutes looking for clues .... but, I still can't figure out what the clamps are for. What are the clamps for?
      It holds a thin piece of rigid plastic in a concave shape that "scrapes" the foam off the top. Here's the first time I saw
      it utilized and I copied mine off of this one:



      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...02#post1649402
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    19. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mild Bill View Post
      Those are some crazy electric rates. So I won't mention that I just locked in at .058 cents fixed for 3 years with no fees.
      This sounds like an ad "Buy our internet provider service and pay only $9.99 for the first three years." Pretty sure the rates aren't going to go down after that.

    20. #40
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      Pictures added to first post.

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