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    Thread: Blue Eco conversion to motor drive

    1. #1
      icu2's Avatar
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      Blue Eco conversion to motor drive

      After having the BE for a couple of years now, it's had its issues as have many others... but was still viable
      and trustworthy; until lately. The linear gear that turns the drum is no longer retracting at all when a cleaning
      cycle happens. Consequently it will cycle about 4 times and reach it's travel limit and stick on.
      Imo the container, drum, spray bar, etc., are all very well built, so all those will be kept in tact. But I want to
      change out the linear gear and piston design for a chain and sprocket motor driven one. I know many of
      the very talented people who have made DIY RDF designs have opted to go to a direct drive approach after trying
      the chain and sprocket, but the thought of somehow cutting the stainless steel container in order to make a direct
      connection with the shaft and drum, seems overwhelming. So I'm going to go this route and if it's an epic failure,
      you all will be here to witness it.
      Also breaking with the norm, I want to run it strictly on a timer. No water level monitoring devices. I think if I'm
      able to get this to work it might make it seem less daunting to others to modify their non-working BE's. I might
      be missing something in trying this but just watching mine cycle for the last couple years, I can normally almost
      set my watch by when it cycles. Very predictable. And if I could make a similar interval of an "on and off" cycle,
      I think I could eliminate the whole water sensing device. I might be able to be swayed to the dark side though.

      So, first thing I needed to do was convert it from feeding off the house water supply to a pressure pump that
      pulls water from the clean side of the RDF:
      Name:  Pressure Pump.jpg
Views: 1682
Size:  93.8 KB

      Here's what the existing sprocket looks like exposed with out the linear gear and piston covering it:

      Name:  Drum Gear.jpg
Views: 1020
Size:  71.6 KB

      I'd like to reuse it with the new design but not a big deal if it's got to go. I haven't counted the teeth
      or measured the pitch, but just showing it fwiw.

      That's enough for now. I'd like to hear any thoughts about other options. I admit that I may not use them and
      continue down the path I have envisioned, so don't be upset if I don't follow instructions! I've never been very
      good at them anyway.

      I wish I was smart enough to do a thread in the DIY forum where I just show what I did... but I know I'm not.
      But hopefully we'll make this a community project and at the end we can give other BE owners an option to modify
      theirs in case they need to.

      Thanks for following along,
      --Steve



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    2. #2
      Zac Penn is offline Supporting Member
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      Way to go Steve!!!! I look forward to seeing what you come up with. I am comfortably in the middle ground between thinking the sensor is fantastic, while also thinking it is excessive and makes these filters more complicated than they need to be. You have had enough experience with your filter and pond to know what the timing should be so I would try the timer route and see how it goes. I personally like a cleaning cycle between 15-45 minutes and with the sheer size of the BE drums I think you could find a happy medium in there without risking too much draw down.
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    3. #3
      icu2's Avatar
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      Other stuff...

      I've been looking at this motor to use to turn the drum:

      https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N8YDOC9...v_ov_lig_dp_it

      I also assume I need to replace the valve that the float operates now with something that works on electricity. First thing is I
      wonder if the pipe is 25mm or 1 inch? I'm thinking because of where it's made it'd be 25mm. Could a Hunter valve like these
      be submerged? And is 24 VAC okay to use or should I concentrate on 12 VDC?

      https://irrigationexpress.co.nz/hunt...oid-valve.html

      I've looked at some 1" stainless steel valves too that are in the $90 range. If that's what I need , so be it. But I'm afraid that
      once I take it apart I'll need 25mm and not 1 inch.

      Dumb question:
      I've never quite been able to figure out how the float operates that existing valve under it?
      I've tried to manually make it come on but can't seem to do it. Anyone know how it triggers the valve to flow water?
      --Steve



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    4. #4
      mplskoi is offline Supporting Member
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      Thanks Steve. It seems to me that 70% of what an RDF is is the drum, the inlets, the box that it is housed in and the spray bar. No matter how a BE or any other brand of RDF ages why not retrofit it when needed? The 70% that isn't too mechanically complex is still intact and ready for another 20 years of service.
      SO hats of to you for doing this. And if you would continue to provide links to the specific parts that you use then the rest of us can do this same retrofit when our time comes.
      I think I would still use a float if I were you. I think it would be pretty easy to do, and maybe you could even get one from one of the other RDF manufacturers.

    5. #5
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      Not sure if it ever saw the light of day but it seemed to exist. https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...n-Blue-Eco-RDF

      The link I posted in that thread is not working but here is a new one http://www.aquscience.com/Show.asp?i...id=24&Jid=3.24 I couldn't get the video to play but it seems they are now using a belt drive system. Possibly the parts could be retrofitted?

      If you and Zac can put heads together I think some of the parts from the DracoDrum could be utilized to operate the BE. If you had the controller, Large gear and motor from the Draco I think it could be retrofitted fairly simply.

    6. #6
      BWG is online now Senior Member
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      Sketch of new unit
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    7. #7
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mplskoi View Post
      Thanks Steve. It seems to me that 70% of what an RDF is is the drum, the inlets, the box that it is housed in and the spray bar. No matter how a BE or any other brand of RDF ages why not retrofit it when needed? The 70% that isn't too mechanically complex is still intact and ready for another 20 years of service.
      SO hats of to you for doing this. And if you would continue to provide links to the specific parts that you use then the rest of us can do this same retrofit when our time comes.
      I think I would still use a float if I were you. I think it would be pretty easy to do, and maybe you could even get one from one of the other RDF manufacturers.
      I'll be sure to add links to anything I use and things that actually work. And to ones that don't.
      Ideally I'd like to use a float or some kind of water level sensor. And as any system, what works for me might not work for the next guy.
      In Washington there's not an issue with a shortage of water... but nobody likes to waste it either. But I use about 35g every 3 hours to
      waste that does my water changes and removes debris from the bottom of the pond; so in the grand scheme of things I'm thinking if
      I use a gallon or two more than needed, I don't think I'll really notice it much. Now if I was in southern Cali I know I'd feel differently.

      --Steve



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    8. #8
      BWG is online now Senior Member
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      Simple Omron dual timer. Available for many voltages. On - off times configurable for hours, minutes and seconds. The clone Chinese version is under $15. Can function in a continous loop of on off cycles or a switch can be wired in to pause the timer. Easy to replace as it is plug in.

      Timer output should switch relay(s) on and off that powers accessories such as a drum motor, valve and pump. This isolates the timer. Fuses should be installed for protection.

      I purchased two of these for a friend's hydroponic setup to run in a continous loop.
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    9. #9
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      Check your inbox.


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    10. #10
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      Sorry it got to this point. I sold mine but was transparent about some issues. Im just a jerk to many

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    11. #11
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Sorry it got to this point. I sold mine but was transparent about some issues. Im just a jerk to many
      It's not about being transparent. I don't think anyone is blind to the issues with the BE. When some were failing, mine still worked fine and
      I said that. But it's usually not a freak thing that a number have an issue and to think you are immune to the same thing is burying your head
      in the sand. I suspected it was only a matter of time.

      But I think it needs to be noted that the BE RDF itself is built like a tank. If it can be made to work reliably I think there are a lot out there that
      can be had for a bargain because people are sick of trying to get them to work as designed. If a reasonably priced mod could be had to make it
      work, I think they might be a bargain on the secondary market and work for years.
      --Steve



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    12. #12
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      I have my KC RDF on a timer...its every 10 minutes. Works great. Most of the failures occurred with the sensors.
      I could probably do every 20-25 but I figured meh.
      Good luck. If my controller dies, I'll be in the same boat you are.

      I might add that the timer function was built into the controller...I didn't do anything except re-wire the sensors
      Last edited by rainblood; 06-06-2018 at 11:23 PM.
      -Rain

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    13. #13
      mplskoi is offline Supporting Member
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      I realize you are headed down the path of a retrofit, but have you tried to figure out why the arm won't retract? Is it years of gunk? Could it be soaked in PP overnight and cleaned out? Or is there some kind of spring that draws it back?
      The ice and water dispenser in my fridge door seemed like a goner recently. One shot of lube up into the pivot and it works fine again. What if that is all you really need to do? Clean and lube?

    14. #14
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mplskoi View Post
      I realize you are headed down the path of a retrofit, but have you tried to figure out why the arm won't retract? Is it years of gunk? Could it be soaked in PP overnight and cleaned out? Or is there some kind of spring that draws it back?
      The ice and water dispenser in my fridge door seemed like a goner recently. One shot of lube up into the pivot and it works fine again. What if that is all you really need to do? Clean and lube?
      Well I'm pretty sure there's a spring that forces the piston back but was advised to NOT attempt to disassemble it as I'd never get it back together.
      I was going to just purchase another piston assembly but apparently they've been redesigned and mine is obsolete and if I replaced it I'd also need to
      replace all the existing plumbing in the RDF. I was waiting for an estimate from China of what it'd cost to send me all I'd need to replace it completely
      but never got an answer.
      And actually I did initially pull the piston and linear gear out and clean and lube the cylinder and all parts with silicon grease. It worked great for
      about 4 times and now I can remove and clean it, reassemble it... but it makes no difference.
      --Steve



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    15. #15
      Jaymeseywaymsey's Avatar
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      That motor is similar to wonder motors rotisserie motor. It’s small, but torquey.

      If you go with the kit I sent you information on, it’s designed to be used with a worm drive motor from Oriental Motor Company. They are usually AC since they are designed for industrial use, and can be sourced used from eBay for pennies on the dollar.

      Building the controller is straight forward. Items needed:

      Timer
      AC Relay
      AC solenoid valve
      Project box.

      We can do DC, but would need to source the correct motor and a DC power supply.

      Do you use an external pump for the spray bar or just main water pressure?



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      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jaymeseywaymsey View Post
      That motor is similar to wonder motors rotisserie motor. It’s small, but torquey.

      If you go with the kit I sent you information on, it’s designed to be used with a worm drive motor from Oriental Motor Company. They are usually AC since they are designed for industrial use, and can be sourced used from eBay for pennies on the dollar.

      Building the controller is straight forward. Items needed:

      Timer
      AC Relay
      AC solenoid valve
      Project box.

      We can do DC, but would need to source the correct motor and a DC power supply.

      Do you use an external pump for the spray bar or just main water pressure?



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      I've reached out to him about the kit... I'll have to wait and see if he responds. The motor looks simple
      enough but not sure how the solenoid is modified. Looks interesting.

      The pump creates the pressure and supplies water to the spray bar, so I guess both. It's one of these:

      https://jet.com/product/Bur-Cam-Pump...f-a5b4a09f8436
      --Steve



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      Perfect. It’s got a built in pressure regulator so it detects when pressure drops and kicks on. (Like a booster pump for your whole house.)



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      icu2's Avatar
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      I have to be honest that when the conversation turns to controllers, AC relays and the like my eyes kind
      of glaze over. Maybe I'm over simplifying this but shouldn't I only need a motor to turn the drum, and
      a solenoid to initiate the water flow and then simply plug those into a timer like I use for my air lifts?

      --Steve



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    19. #19
      Zac Penn is offline Supporting Member
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      What would be very convenient for you is to find a small 115VAC drive motor and a 115VAC solenoid valve to open the spray bar. Then connect both of those cords to a 115VAC timer (make sure the timer has a manual trigger button so you can start a cleaning process on demand to check the operation) and you are done. That pressure pump has a pressure switch so when the solenoid valve opens the pressure drops and the pump turns on automatically until the solenoid valve closes. The only issue you need to design around is how much water those nozzles spray at a given pressure. If the pump provides more water than the sprayers consume and the pressure gets up to 60 PSI the pump will turn off for a second and then turn back on when the pressure drops. This rapid cycling will burn out either the pressure switch or the motor itself VERY quickly. Ask me how I know hahahaha
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    20. #20
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zac Penn View Post
      What would be very convenient for you is to find a small 115VAC drive motor and a 115VAC solenoid valve to open the spray bar. Then connect both of those cords to a 115VAC timer (make sure the timer has a manual trigger button so you can start a cleaning process on demand to check the operation) and you are done. That pressure pump has a pressure switch so when the solenoid valve opens the pressure drops and the pump turns on automatically until the solenoid valve closes. The only issue you need to design around is how much water those nozzles spray at a given pressure. If the pump provides more water than the sprayers consume and the pressure gets up to 60 PSI the pump will turn off for a second and then turn back on when the pressure drops. This rapid cycling will burn out either the pressure switch or the motor itself VERY quickly. Ask me how I know hahahaha
      Thanks Zac,
      The pump has been running for several weeks and no issues so far so I think it's fine. The RDF's only issue is the piston and linear gear unit.
      And that's what I was saying about the motor and solenoid. Whatever power they happen to require it's pretty simple to find a power supply
      to convert them to house current. Most solenoids I've seen are 24VAC. The motor happens to be 12VDC but it's simple enough to find one
      similar that is AC too. I guess I have a built in fear of AC being around and submerged in the water, but it's probably from my inexperience with
      power in general. But plug them into any common timer that can be bought on Amazon for $50 and it seems like it should work. (And the
      Sentinel pictured does have a button to activate the "on" time).
      Some designs just seem like they're more complicated than they might need to be.
      --Steve



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