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  • Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
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    Thread: Bruce's pond redo design & review

    1. #1
      bkillen is offline Senior Member
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      request help with Bruce's pond redo design

      I am looking to remove my existing pond and go deeper, bigger and add bottom drain.
      I have somewhat sandy soil and already built a smaller goldfish pond with plywood, concrete collar and liner. It seems to be working OK and cost effective. Below are some pictures of the site. I plan on going 18-19' long x 9' wide oval 4' deep with two 3" aerated bottom drains. Send those to a Zakki sieve then split to 2 S&G filters then to shower. returning via falls. I would also like to add a skimmer but I am not sure how to deal with that. Do I need a separate pump and circuit on a pond this size?

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      Pics of location as it is today

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      Last edited by bkillen; 04-08-2018 at 07:53 PM.
      currently working on plans and budget for my next build.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ign-amp-review

    2. #2
      birdman's Avatar
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      For a pond your size I would go with the large 24" Zakki Sieve. It can be made to take both BD's and a 3" skimmer line.
      I would go with three S/G filters in parallel and have them dump into the top of your shower.

    3. #3
      bkillen is offline Senior Member
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      I didn't realize this size crossed the point where I need to go from a Zakki 16" to a 24". That's a price jump plus a lager pump as well. I may need to back down the size a bit. I currently am sending a submersible directly to the two S&G filters. Lots of maintenance. I would like to improve that.
      Perhaps I need to start with my design goals. Go deeper than the current pond and remove plant shelves to eliminate predation. Provide more room for growth for the dozen koi I currently have. Add a skimmer to deal with leaves and such. Bottom drains and better mechanical filtration for fish health and easier maintenance.
      Concrete collar to stabilize edge. Hide liner better and make it attractive enough to please the Mrs.

      The space between the workshop and the shed is about 10 inches higher than pond level, and I don't really have a good place for a filter pit so the Zakki seems like a good fit.
      I am open to discuss other options, I am handy but only 1 person so we are meeting with a pond builder tomorrow to see what he knows. Even if he helps dig and wrestle the liner into the hole it may speed things up. The plumbing I can deal with. My previous career was building & remodeling. AKA jack of all trades master of none.
      currently working on plans and budget for my next build.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ign-amp-review

    4. #4
      birdman's Avatar
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      I was suggesting the 24" Zakki Sieve based on flow, and the comment of adding a skimmer and not knowing how to handle that. You could probable also feed a skimmer line through the standard sieve if the two BDs were tied together. I'm not sure how many inlets Zac can do .

    5. #5
      bkillen is offline Senior Member
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      I think I have seen drains tied together just before the sieve on a Zakki Jr. If the larger one is superior in this case it can be a consideration.
      I am not ruling it out, just sticker shock I guess. A single sieve sure sounds simpler than the 2 separate circuits I see some people do. I currently cover for winter, add air and float a stock tank heater and shut down filtration during the coldest part of winter. I see some people keep a 2nd circuit running for winter. How important is that?
      Thanks for the input Birdman.
      currently working on plans and budget for my next build.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ign-amp-review

    6. #6
      bkillen is offline Senior Member
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      well first one down. I met with a pond builder today. Found out he has done exactly one bottom drain, thought they were for flushing the crud like a settling chamber. When I explained I was looking at a sieve he looked lost. Mentioned he likes pond kits. and talked about needing to remove the sludge in his pond.
      Next!
      Does anyone know somebody near the Ohio river valley who builds ponds?
      Last edited by bkillen; 04-10-2018 at 11:22 PM.
      currently working on plans and budget for my next build.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ign-amp-review

    7. #7
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      Check with one of our resident expert pros- Russell Peters. He travels, and knows more about pond building/construction than just about anybody. He is listed in the Pro Marketplace section of the forum.

    8. #8
      bkillen is offline Senior Member
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      OK I am going to message both Zak and Russ tomorrow. I do have one more general question for now. At this stage a Zakki sieve is looking like a good choice for my mechanical filtration, and a big improvement over current situation. I have seen prices on some new smaller RDF's coming down, getting closer to the price of a large Zakki sieve? If so are the smaller RDF's gonna cut it on a pond of this size? If you separate the skimmer, can you feed an RDF directly from bottom drains? Just looking to see if RDF is feasible, sensible or even near budget.
      currently working on plans and budget for my next build.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ign-amp-review

    9. #9
      lkstaack is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
      For a pond your size I would go with the large 24" Zakki Sieve. It can be made to take both BD's and a 3" skimmer line.
      I would go with three S/G filters in parallel and have them dump into the top of your shower.
      The Zakki sieve doesn't filter the water well enough before sending it to a shower?
      -Lars


    10. #10
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by lkstaack View Post
      The Zakki sieve doesn't filter the water well enough before sending it to a shower?
      Not ideal , some mechanical fines filtration like a bead filter or a sand and gravel filter would be best after a sieve , and before a shower filter

    11. #11
      lkstaack is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by catfish whiskers View Post
      Not ideal , some mechanical fines filtration like a bead filter or a sand and gravel filter would be best after a sieve , and before a shower filter
      I accept what you say but I don't want to hijack this thread. Could you direct me to a source (or search terms) that explains in more detail why a sieve filter that screens particles down to 200-300 microns should have additional fines filtering? Thank you.
      -Lars


    12. #12
      Zac Penn is offline Supporting Member
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      Is your shed completely out of the question for filtration location? It just seems very idea to house the filters in there so they are protected from the winter weather. This will allow the pond to run all year and you would just have to cover it. Here is a great video a customer of mine just posted on facebook showing how his system is setup. This could work great for your pond as well...
      https://www.facebook.com/steve.audio...0738244786604/

      That setup has a max flow rate of 6,600 GPH. If you need more flow than that, we could go up to a double ZacoDraco for up to 9,000 GPH...


      There are some smaller RDFs available like the Red label Basic25 and the DracoDrum Solum25 that are reasonably priced, but you haven't talked about wanting to go gravity fed for the filters so in order to use them and save money you will need to dig a filter pit. Otherwise if you are going to pump feed them you will need to go with the Zakki Sieve and then pump tot he RDF like with the ZacoDraco mentioned earlier. I also make Gravity Fed ZacoDraco's and complete stand alone RDF systems as well like can be found in my Marketplace on Koiphen.

      Let me know your thoughts on what I have thrown out there so far.
      Zac Penn.... Please sign-up for our MAILING LIST HERE
      904-288-6199
      Zac@DeepwaterKoi.com
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    13. #13
      bkillen is offline Senior Member
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      When I built the shed, possibly putting some filtration in there was in the back of mind. Unfortunately my wife and I have managed to fill it with too much other stuff. I had also thought about throwing up a temporary shelter between the buildings for the winters. I had originally tossed out the idea of a filter pit when, a few years back, I was seeing people build these large pits for settling chambers. I just don't have that kind of space. With the advent of the sieve & the RDF, filter pits appear to be getting smaller. I will look over these ideas. I am afraid my budget would not allow for a Sieve and RDF. So I think I am leaning either gravity fed RDF in a pit or Zakki sieve to S&G to shower. Gonna sleep on it.
      Thanks all.
      currently working on plans and budget for my next build.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ign-amp-review

    14. #14
      bkillen is offline Senior Member
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      More questions

      After looking at things. I just don't think I want to give up enough space to hide a filter pit and make it large enough to be easily accessible. I think I will be quite happy with birdman's original idea. Bottom drains & skimmer > Zakki sieve > 3 S&G filters > Shower.
      I currently am running a submersible pump > 2 S&G filters > Shower and am happy with fines filtration, but I'm getting tired of pulling algae from the pump daily in the spring. This upgrade might reduce maintenance enough, if not I may want an above ground RDF at a later time and the sieve would allow for that.


      So if were to go this route would this pump plus a priming pot do the trick? Or do we need more numbers figured out before knowing pump size?
      I have this BF6000 new in box, the black pump curve. It was bought to power a closed loop for a saltwater project and I went a different direction. Mine has 2" inlet and outlets.
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      currently working on plans and budget for my next build.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ign-amp-review

    15. #15
      birdman's Avatar
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      A priming pot/basket would need to be cleaned quite often, possible every day. The Ultra sieve 111 is still your best route I think.

    16. #16
      bkillen is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
      A priming pot/basket would need to be cleaned quite often, possible every day. The Ultra sieve 111 is still your best route I think.
      Sorry I wasn't clear. I sometimes talk better than I type.
      I am thinking of going with a 24" Zakki sieve to 3 S&G filters as you originally suggested. I only mentioned a priming pot since this pump doesn't have one built-in. and I understand it is useful when in bypass mode. I have seen the ultra sieve is a nice unit but requires gravity fed, is that correct?
      I currently do have to clean the submersible pump almost daily, it's getting old.
      I have read here the pump should be chosen last. I am wondering if I am mistaken in thinking this pump which I already have would fit the bill.
      currently working on plans and budget for my next build.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ign-amp-review

    17. #17
      bkillen is offline Senior Member
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      OK I did some digging and now I see the Ultrasieve III is capable of much more flow than a Cetus and can be pump or gravity fed. Hmmm
      currently working on plans and budget for my next build.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ign-amp-review

    18. #18
      catfish whiskers's Avatar
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      Pump feeding a sieve is pointless , because You will still have a leaf basket that will clog up.

    19. #19
      bkillen is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by catfish whiskers View Post
      Pump feeding a sieve is pointless , because You will still have a leaf basket that will clog up.
      Thanks, still strongly leaning on a Zakki sieve. It seems like it will be easier to maintain, If I were to dig a filter pit it would have to be small and I wouldn't be able to get down to equipment level easily.
      currently working on plans and budget for my next build.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ign-amp-review

    20. #20
      JGS107 is offline Senior Member
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      How are you feeding the shower from your sand and gravel filters. Sounds like they would have to be a lot higher for the gravity flow of the water to the shower.

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