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  • Results 1 to 9 of 9

    Thread: Chloramine Poisoning

    1. #1
      JapaneseFamousKoi's Avatar
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      Chloramine Poisoning

      Hello everybody;

      I moved to Japan 3 weeks ago and just 2 weeks into my move, I receive an urgent message from my family that the fish are dying and so I'm now back home already...
      The cause of death was simple; chloramine poisoning due to not adding dechlorinator to the tap water...

      Upon my arrival on Friday, there were 3 Koi dead, with another one and a tiny old Goldfish following shortly after...

      The survivors that were all hand-tame, were terrified when I approached the pond.
      The pond was foaming up so I did a 70% water change to try to clear it up. Since the tap water contains 2ppm of ammonia to begin with, I currently have 2ppm of ammonia still in the pond due to the die-off of the beneficial bacteria. The ammonia levels haven't gone down but today I noticed some nitrites accumulating...so that must mean there's still a small colony of bacteria trying to do their job..? The filter smells bad and so does the water a little bit.

      The veining on most of the fish seems to have cleared up and they are now mostly active when I approach the pond. However when I'm taking a sneak-peek, I see that they are mostly inactive with some clamping fins, laying on the bottom...Oh there's one that has completely isolated itself from the herd.

      I noticed a Platinum Ogon that really concerns me with a notched nose and eyes that are clearly sunken in...I know that these are symptoms of both KHV & Costia. There are a few fish with a notched nose but this fish has sunken eyes to go with it. And what's with all the wrinkles on it's forehead?
      Can chloramine poisoning cause this? I really don't think it's Costia since the water temperature is in the 50's and I just treated the herd in a heated QT right before I left for Japan. Or can Costia multiply and cause these symptoms even at cold temperatures in a matter of a few days?

      I'd really like to shotgun treat the entire pond, which I've always had no problems performing, but this time I think it will send the fish over the edge...


      ...Anyways what could I do with the survivors? With the water parameters being off after they've had their gills badly burnt, I think there will be more casualties in the next few weeks.
      I could salt the pond to help with the breathing, but I read that salt can cause cold water to become even colder...and I also use metal hose clamps and a submersible pump and don't want them to rust.

      Another thing I could do is to move the fish & filter to a heated indoor stock tank to speed up the cycling process...but I thought I read somewhere that warm temperatures can make the effects of (the same level of) ammonia & nitrites deadlier than in colder water.

      I'm at quite a dilemma...I wish I can board them somewhere until at least the filter cycles. I turned off the UV and added Tetra SafeStart Plus today.
      Last edited by JapaneseFamousKoi; 09-03-2018 at 01:52 AM.

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    2. #2
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      So sorry for your loss but help it's coming lots of good help here.

    3. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by nishikigoi21 View Post
      These are the dead fish. I froze the fish several hours after their deaths and thawed them for the photos.
      If KHV also had to do with the deaths, wouldn't they obviously appear diseased?

      On all of the fish...
      The eyes are less pronounced as they used to be, but not as sunken as the Platinum Ogon. I don't really see a nose notch as well.
      The skin; aside from some redness, I don't really see anything nasty looking. Both the Ogons felt sandy to the touch though.
      The gills appear to be in one uniform color, again nothing nasty looking.

      Subject #1: 15" Mukashi Ogon...the left eye turned red after freezing; there was blood coming out of the gills as well.
      Subject #2: 11" Yamabuki Ogon
      Subject #3: 6" Karasugoi(Doitsu)
      Subject #4: 11" Shusui
      Subject #5: 4" Goldfish
      I am sorry for your loss. Chloramine causes gill damage, which is the cause of early deaths. Chloramine also strips the slime coat and irritated the skin, which allows parasites easier access to the fish, so it is very possible that chloramine lead to a secondary costia or other parasitic infection.

      Chloramine also causes stress, which further weakens the fish's immune system and is another reason the fish might be at greater risk for secondary infections.

      Salt does lower the freezing point of water, but it does not make water colder. If nitrite is present, then salt in the 0.10 to 0.15% range will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning. Products like Prime, SAFE, or Cloram-X will keep ammonia in a safe form. Most ammonia test kits will still measure the ammonia. Seachem makes an ammonia alert card that measures only the free ammonia. Use it to guide when additional Prime, SAFE, or Cloram-X is needed.

      What are the water temperature, pH, and KH? It is important to maintain the best wayer quality possible while the surviving fish try to recover.

      Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

    4. #4
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      So sorry to hear about this... Just lending support as you work your way through this nightmare.



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    5. #5
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      I hope you don't drink that garbage yourselves...........Only in murrika would someone pay a fee to have poison pumped into their home.
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    6. #6
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      The lack of slime coat and sandpaper feel is typical of costia, and costia will suck the fluids out of a fish causing the notch, the sunken eyes, and I think the reduction in flesh under the skin on the head. I would be prepared to do the shotgun treatment if isolation and clamping continue. For now, the most important thing is water quality. Be sure to check ammonia, nitrite, KH and pH, and give us the numbers, so that we may give additional information on possible improvements.
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    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by nishikigoi21 View Post
      I appreciate the condolences...

      To be honest, I've never really paid attention to KH & pH so I don't have proper test kits for those. I do have Tetra's test strips that I bought a year ago, but it seems to have gone bad because the Nitrate portion was brown(I believe it used to be light pink), and stayed brown even after water exposure.
      Anyways KH readings were ideal and pH was between neutral and alkaline...

      API drops revealed 2ppm still for Ammonia and somewhere between 2~5ppm for Nitrites.
      Glad to know salt won't lower the actual water temperature; but I noticed that I ran out of API aquarium salt so I'll probably order some tonight.


      And could anybody elaborate the relationship between water temperature & effects of ammonia/nitrite?
      Again, I can move the fish into a much smaller setup indoors and heat it to 78F to speed up the cycling process...but of course I wouldn't do it if higher temperatures causes ill-effects.

      And regarding the Platinum Ogon, it seems to be looking much better now. The eyes appear less sunken in, less forehead wrinkles, and is quite active now.
      There is still a slight notch on most of the fish, but lets just hope it wasn't parasite-related to begin with. I'll perform a shotgun treatment after the filter cycles and I see lots of flashing.
      The lower the water temperature, and the lower the pH, the more ammonia is in the less toxic NH4+ form. There is a koi calculator button at the top of every page of Koiphen. One of the calculators gives free ammonia based on temperature and pH.

      Nitrite toxicity is only slightly less in cold water, but salt will prevent nitrite toxicity regardless if temperature.

      Do not waste your money on aquarium salt. You can get 40 pound bags of pure salt crystals at the big box home improvement stores for about $6.

      KH is the most important parameter to measure regularly. As long as KH is reasonably high, pH takes care of itself.

      I have never had chloramine from tap water cause the biofilter to die off. A pH crash, on the other hand will kill off the biofilter.

      What is the water temperature? I would think moving the fish to smaller quarters would be worse than leaving them where they are unless the water is really cold. Also, moving the fish to warmer water will allow the parasites to reproduce faster. The parasites respond to warmer water much more rapidly than the fish's immune system will.

      If you are seeing nitrite, the filter is rebounding from whatever set it back. I would leave the fish where they are, measure pH and KH and take corrective steps, if necessary. Also, keep salt in the 0.10% to 0.15% range, and add Prime, SAFE, or Cloram-X as long as ammonia is present. Use the Seachem Ammonia Alert card to guide the use of the ammonia binders.

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    8. #8
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      For salt go to the water softening section of Home Depot, Lowes or similar and buy the solar crystals type of salt. It is pure salt, costs about $7 per 40 pound bag. Much cheaper than the aquarium salt.

      Go to the aquarium store and get the Ammonia Alert Card to let you know if you have it bound. The ammonia is easy to bind with Prime, Safe, Cloram-X or similar chloramine treatment. While at the aquarium store, get the API liquid drop test kits for ammonia, nitrite, high range pH and KH.
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    9. #9
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      High salt concentrations (0.6% and higher) might slow the filter cycling, but concentrations of 0.15% and lower will not harm the biofilter. Nitrite without salt will cause brown blood disease (Nitrite poisoning) and death. Salt should have been added as soon as nitrite was detected. Salt prevents nitrite from being absorbed by the fish, and thereby prevents nitrite poisoning. I do not know if salt will reverse damage already done by nitrite, but get the salt in the water right away to prevent any further nitrite absorption.

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