• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
    Results 21 to 40 of 63

    Thread: Aquaponics, sure, why not

    1. #21
      kimini is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      1,694
      Week 6:

      Onions are fine, the peppers, so-so; the melons and cucumbers, meh. Given the steady decline in health I'm doing the only thing I can, greatly increasing the time between fill cycles, going from 5 times an hour to once a day. Been running it that way for almost a week and it's kinda funny in a sad sort of way that it doesn't seem to matter. While they don't look any worse, they don't look much better either. Not much else to do than let it run its course. The peppers have formed but who knows if they'll grow to maturity.

      Overall I'm not real impressed. Next spring I'll give it another go, planting everything when it would normally go into the soil. As it is, we're moving into Fall so I don't know if that's part of the reason for the less-than-perky plants.

      This is partly why I ran this test; I became suspicious how YouTube videos concentrate so much on the building of the system, yet we never seem to see videos of the bountiful harvests. I suspect the dream may be better than the execution, but I'll give it another try next spring.
      Last edited by kimini; 09-08-2017 at 07:51 PM.
      Author of Midlana, Build this High Performance Mid-engine Sports Car. http://midlana.com/stuff/book

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    2. #22
      kimini is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      1,694
      I cut back the fill/dump cycle to once a day, manually running the pump just long enough the cause the siphon to do its thing. The plants don't look any worse and if anything, maybe better; perhaps they just had overly-wet roots. It's fall now and with the cooler weather, some of the stuff I planted may not reach maturity before it's too cold, but that's not a fault of the system. Both the cucumbers plants look healthy but none of the flowers have turned to vegetables. I wonder if part of the problem is bees not knowing the plants are available for pollination, though I don't see how the watering method would matter to them. Anyway, I'll let things run their course, then shut it down until next spring when we'll get a proper start on Round 2.
      Last edited by kimini; 09-18-2017 at 10:27 AM.
      Author of Midlana, Build this High Performance Mid-engine Sports Car. http://midlana.com/stuff/book

    3. #23
      Paultergeist is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
      Location
      San Diego, California
      Posts
      2,530
      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      ....Overall I'm not real impressed. Next spring I'll give it another go, planting everything when it would normally go into the soil. As it is, we're moving into Fall so I don't know if that's part of the reason for the less-than-perky plants.

      This is partly why I ran this test; I became suspicious how YouTube videos concentrate so much on the building of the system, yet we never seem to see videos of the bountiful harvests. I suspect the dream may be better than the execution, but I'll give it another try next spring.
      I am really enjoying your posts within this thread, and I appreciate you sharing this with the forum. My experiences with aquaponics are similar to your own -- it sounds so charming in theory, but reality is quite different. One of the points of irony I have noticed is that --> with keeping Koi, we generally try to make the water as clean as possible, while aquaponics users are conversely often adding nutrient sources to the water. The serious aquaponics devotees will buy all sorts of nutrient additives -- these to be added to the water.

      It was my impression that -- using just the water from my Koi pond (which itself was subjected to traditional bio-filtration) the plants were not getting what they needed to really thrive. I kind of felt like two opposing forces were colliding: clean / clear water which would be best for the fish and for viewing, vs. nutrient-rich water would be best for the plants.

      I freely confess, however, that I do not know a lot about successful plant growing....except for algae.....I'm REALLY good at growing algae......

    4. #24
      kimini is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      1,694
      Water testing always shows some nitrate, so the plants are getting that but like you said, not much else. My self-imposed rules are that the fish come first and the plants run a close second, so I'm not going to add anything to the (recirculating) water for the benefit of the plants. If it doesn't work out, shrug, well, I learned all about aquaponics and its limitations. OTOH, with the greatly reduced watering cycle, the plants look "somewhat less bad", so we'll see how it goes next spring. Oh, and the three peppers on the somewhat-sad looking pepper plant are just starting to turn from green to red, so there's that
      Author of Midlana, Build this High Performance Mid-engine Sports Car. http://midlana.com/stuff/book

    5. #25
      kdh is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2011
      Location
      NW Arkansas
      Posts
      8,575
      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      Water testing always shows some nitrate, so the plants are getting that but like you said, not much else. My self-imposed rules are that the fish come first and the plants run a close second, so I'm not going to add anything to the (recirculating) water for the benefit of the plants. If it doesn't work out, shrug, well, I learned all about aquaponics and its limitations. OTOH, with the greatly reduced watering cycle, the plants look "somewhat less bad", so we'll see how it goes next spring. Oh, and the three peppers on the somewhat-sad looking pepper plant are just starting to turn from green to red, so there's that
      My bananas turn from green to yellow. On the counter. No aquaponics. lol

    6. #26
      richtoybox's Avatar
      richtoybox is offline Administrator
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      14,345
      I think that our koi ponds need a fairly high KH, which translates to a fairly high pH. Many of the nutrients are not available at the pH values a typical koi pond has. To get the pH low enough to have those nutrients available, the pH swings would be very hard on the fish and the bio filters. I don't know how to get the pH down into the 6 or 6.5 range and have it stable.
      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    7. #27
      BroHay is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2017
      Location
      Mexico Nuevo
      Posts
      137
      Well, as I am new (registered) to the forum, I have a pretty good test system that I am currently expanding to an 1100 gallon tank with DWC (Deep Water Culture) which keep the roots submerged in water all the time. I'll also have some Dutch Buckets tied I to the system which is a flood/slow drain as opposed to a rapid bell siphon.

      My test system are media beds on a flood/drain cycle around 3-5 times/hour.

      It is true that AP (Aquaponics) wants the bathroom to drive the system, and most quality koi foods have the necessary nutrients to adequately sustain the system w/o much supplementation. Sure, you need K, Fe, and Ca (in moderation) but these additives are dosed in minimal levels to keep the fish's water quality at optimum levels for overall health. And my system remains around a PH of 7.95.

      Also, maximizing the fish waste to collect and process further (mineralization) to introduce back into the system.

      I hope over the membership to the forum that we can learn from each other b/c I have a sneaky feeling (from my wife) that I am going to be making a large pond that will be driving my veggie production to the extreme.

      And YES, there is a huge difference in veggie taste over store bought to make one get serious. It also uses about 10% of the water volume that would be used in conventional dirt farming.

      Adam

    8. #28
      richtoybox's Avatar
      richtoybox is offline Administrator
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      14,345
      Welcome to the forum. Always like to see new methods. Of course the forum likes to see lots of pictures.
      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    9. #29
      kimini is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      1,694
      Thread update:

      Short story: meh.

      Long story: It's my rule that drained-off pond water is run to yard plants, so the rule was simple: no adding anything to the aquaponics water, since it dumps back into the pond. If the aquaponics experiment worked, great, if not, oh well.

      Coincidently, we had a volunteer tomato plant spring up in the dirt used to fill the old pond. It provided a compare its growth in ordinary dirt and no fertilizer, with another already in the aquaponics container. The one in the dirt is now roughly 10 feet across and has dozens of green fully-formed tomatoes. The same type of tomato plant in the aquaponics container ended up looking so sad I pulled it out.

      What's still there are yam plants (we eat the leaves like spinach) and green onions. Both don't look real healthy though because they're sort of pale in color, as if they aren't getting enough nitrate and probably other nutrients as well. Note the comparison between the leaves - you can guess that I'm holding a leaf from the aquaponics plants.

      Regarding the huge difference in taste, it's funny you mention that because just today, my wife said the one time she ate aquaponics-raised food (grown by a friend) it was tasteless.

      I'm not totally down on the concept - I'm sure that adding the appropriate nutrients to the water can result in healthy vegetables, but that violates my self-imposed rule. Adding such things also ups the cost, and I wonder how many people have honestly totalized all the expenses to do a successful aquaponics setup, and what that works out to.
      Attached Images Attached Images     

    10. #30
      Just Jessie's Avatar
      Just Jessie is offline Supporting Member
      is Loving Life
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2006
      Location
      Arlington, Washington
      Posts
      13,918
      Nicely done. I have a sewage ejector pump on my settlement chamber and it all goes out into my veggie garden. My garden does better than anyone else around here.


      Jessie
      I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS
      I support and will defend my right to bear arms

      MY FAVORITE COLOR IS SHINY
      Lifetime Diamond Member #5 WWKC


      BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN

      www.TickerFactory.com

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    11. #31
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      8,029
      you seem to think use with shower setups seem to have 0 or low nitrates. with your rdf you are probably reducing nitrates much lower then those with bead filter or settlement tanks etc. i had super high 120ppm nitrates with settlement tank to upflow and my roses and garden did thrive off of it
      Last edited by kevin32; 11-19-2017 at 08:30 PM.

    12. #32
      kimini is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      1,694
      Well, the plants we run the water to (mostly pineapple guava) are doing great (well, full disclosure, that's not surprising since we weren't watering them at all previously...) So I agree with you that the yard plants are happy, but they're in the dirt, which supplies stuff that's apparently in short supply in the water all by itself.

    13. #33
      BroHay is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2017
      Location
      Mexico Nuevo
      Posts
      137
      Much like the stringent conditions that I am seeing being kept for various ponds, the same sort of regime needs to be kept for optimal growing conditions.

      "X" lbs of fish can sustain so many SF of growing area and the tanks are way smaller IBC tote (250 gallons). You spread that same biomass over a pond X10 in size, and you'll be hard pressed to achieve the same results. The concentration of available nutrients is diluted and plants take up what little is available and then stall.

      Before my wife had me do away with the IBC tote and build a small pool (1100 gallons) 60 2lb koi with a mixed veggie variety would sustain approximately 184 SF of growing area.

      To be fair to the Koi I have and how large my wife wants them to grow, I am probably going to run a decoupled system instead of a recirculating system and employ a mineralization setup to feed the plants. (think of sewer treatment plant for the fish waste. Anaerobic/Aerobic breakdown to maximize the nutrients made available.)

      I'll get pictures of what is currently in the works as soon as I am able to get past the probation period. Some here and probably in an introductory post.

      I know this is not the place, but fairly new and trying to get familiar with forum layout, but I am trying to see if I can run this system entirely by gravity? I live up high in the mountains and power is bound to go out this winter and keep things flowing (somewhat).

      Adam
      Last edited by BroHay; 11-19-2017 at 10:15 PM.

    14. #34
      Just Jessie's Avatar
      Just Jessie is offline Supporting Member
      is Loving Life
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2006
      Location
      Arlington, Washington
      Posts
      13,918
      Nicely done. I have a sewage ejector pump on my settlement chamber and it all goes out into my veggie garden. My garden does better than anyone else around here.


      Jessie
      I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS
      I support and will defend my right to bear arms

      MY FAVORITE COLOR IS SHINY
      Lifetime Diamond Member #5 WWKC


      BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN

      www.TickerFactory.com

    15. #35
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      8,029
      seems feeding the garden with pond water does great. the problem with aquaponics is keeping the nutrients there. I think just sending the dirty water from rdf to regular garden would yield good results

    16. #36
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC President
      ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is sorry otters exist
       
      Feeling:
      Annoyed
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      32,942
      Quote Originally Posted by BroHay View Post
      Much like the stringent conditions that I am seeing being kept for various ponds, the same sort of regime needs to be kept for optimal growing conditions.

      "X" lbs of fish can sustain so many SF of growing area and the tanks are way smaller IBC tote (250 gallons). You spread that same biomass over a pond X10 in size, and you'll be hard pressed to achieve the same results. The concentration of available nutrients is diluted and plants take up what little is available and then stall.

      Before my wife had me do away with the IBC tote and build a small pool (1100 gallons) 60 2lb koi with a mixed veggie variety would sustain approximately 184 SF of growing area.

      To be fair to the Koi I have and how large my wife wants to grow, I am probably going to run a decoupled system I stead of a recirculating system and employ a mineralization setup to feed the plants. (think of sewer treatment plant for the fish waste. Anaerobic/Aerobic breakdown to maximize the nutrients made available.)

      I'll get pictures of what is currently in the works as soon as I am able to get past the probation period. Some here and probably in an introductory post.

      I know this is not the place, but fairly new and trying to get familiar with formum layout, but I am trying to see if I can run this system entirely by gravity? I live up high in the mountains and power is bound to go out this winter and keep things flowing (somewhat).

      Adam
      Welcome Adam and thanks for joining Koiphen!
      You should be ready to go.
      If needed some helpful tips for using the forum are here:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/forumd...d-Forum-Useage

      Enjoy!
      --Steve



      Koiphen 2021 Koi Person of the Year!

    17. #37
      kimini is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      1,694
      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      seems feeding the garden with pond water does great. the problem with aquaponics is keeping the nutrients there. I think just sending the dirty water from rdf to regular garden would yield good results
      That's pretty much my conclusion as well, that there's no need for fancy aquaponics equipment. Just run change water from the pond to your yard plants of choice and Bob's your uncle.

    18. #38
      BroHay is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2017
      Location
      Mexico Nuevo
      Posts
      137
      If by fancy equipment you mean poly barrels, air pumps, media, and IBC tanks --I am living the future dream!

      I am very simplistic in my approach since it is mainly a back yard endeavor, it is not until you start doing high volumes that RDF, speece cones, degassing of CO2 and injection of 02 (to name a few) come into play. My minerialization tanks will just be couple of poly barrels tied into the drains of my system to collect fish waste with some air stones and media to provide a place for the bacteria to colonize and do its thing. and then when needed the flow coming into the tanks will displace and inject into the system to feed......still have further research to do.

      I think that photobucket has finally pinged me to grab links to my pictures, so I'll have to come up with another way to post [img]......[\img] content.

      Adam

    19. #39
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC President
      ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is sorry otters exist
       
      Feeling:
      Annoyed
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      32,942
      Quote Originally Posted by BroHay View Post
      I think that photobucket has finally pinged me to grab links to my pictures, so I'll have to come up with another way to post [img]......[\img] content.

      Adam
      Photobucket stopped free hosting pictures awhile ago but it's pretty simple to upload them here:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...tures-Tutorial
      --Steve



      Koiphen 2021 Koi Person of the Year!

    20. #40
      ricshaw is offline Senior Member
      is who misses his Koi.
       
      Feeling:
      Bemused
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2016
      Location
      Southern California
      Posts
      2,085
      Quote Originally Posted by Paultergeist View Post
      I am really enjoying your posts within this thread, and I appreciate you sharing this with the forum. My experiences with aquaponics are similar to your own -- it sounds so charming in theory, but reality is quite different. One of the points of irony I have noticed is that --> with keeping Koi, we generally try to make the water as clean as possible, while aquaponics users are conversely often adding nutrient sources to the water. The serious aquaponics devotees will buy all sorts of nutrient additives -- these to be added to the water.

      It was my impression that -- using just the water from my Koi pond (which itself was subjected to traditional bio-filtration) the plants were not getting what they needed to really thrive. I kind of felt like two opposing forces were colliding: clean / clear water which would be best for the fish and for viewing, vs. nutrient-rich water would be best for the plants.

      I freely confess, however, that I do not know a lot about successful plant growing....except for algae.....I'm REALLY good at growing algae......
      Our local Koi club had an aquaponics hobbyist new member.
      He was very enthusiastic at first, but shortly became very argumentative in meeting discussions.
      His comments on water quality and fish care caused confusion with other new members.
      He lasted less than one year.

      Some of things I remember him challenging were;
      a 2 ppm ammonia reading was not harmful to Koi
      vitamin C powder was better (safer) and just as economical as sodium thiosulfate for chloramine removal
      frequent water changes were not needed


      member

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •