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    Thread: Selecting a Sanke...

    1. #1
      Jeff R. is offline Senior Member
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      Selecting a Sanke...

      What follows was passed out in written form at the Seminar Selecting Young Koi by Nicole Lembke and Debby Hester. The material was written by Dr. Art Lembke and I recieved permission from Nicole Lembke to share this with the Koiphen Board. The caveat was that we must credit Art for his work. That is not a problem because we know who to ask if we have further questions. Please do not cut and paste this material without first getting permission for Dr. Art Lembke. I hope you enjoy the information as much as I did.


      Selecting a Sanke
      The head of the Sanke, is important to look at. The head should have the same characteristics as that of a Kohaku. There must be balanced red on the head. The nose should be white. If there is Kuchibeni (red lips) present, it is OK as long as there is balance. Eyes may be covered with red around the rim, as long as the red is not overpowering. It is best not to have red on both eyes. There should not be any black on the head.
      Next, look for an interesting pattern of red all the way down the body. Do not choose a koi with red only on the front half or the back half of the body. Balance of color is important.
      If you followed the steps above, you will notice you now have a good kohaku. Now we must add the black. It is best to have the first black patch on the shoulder (not on the head). If there is no black until further back on the fish, the head looks too elongated. The rest of the black further back 0:Q. the body should be in a nice pattern that is balanced side to side, and preferably in the white areas rather than on the red. Some black on the red areas is all right but the more black in the white areas the better. Modem sankes are basically kohakus with a few small black patches in the white field. Red should cover about 50~ 70% of the koi, black about 10%, and the rest should be white.
      At an early stage, look for a fish with a lot of interesting red and very little black. Black tends to come out later and if you start with too much black, it may be too powerful later.
      The red may be bright red or orange~red because the red will usually improve with age. The white should be snow white or a slightly pinkish
      white. Males will tend to have yellower skin. While females will turn whiter after age 2. Black develops later, so pick a koi with only a little black that is balanced now. Pick a Sanke that has fairly organized black rather than small speck like. The black patches should be distinct and cover several scales
      each. Pepper like spots can be a sign of poor quality. Black is all guess work on early Sanke, as even the small peppery black can come together as the koi matures. Jinbei and Torazo bloodline Sankes tend to develop more square
      shaped black, while other bloodlines tend to be more rounded.
      The fins on a sanke should be all white or white with a few black stripes. There should not be any red in the fins, lJl1less very tight to the body. Be careful choosing a young sanke with many black stripes in the pectoral fins. These sometimes develop too much black at a later stage.
      Again, as in all koi, look for broad shoulders and large pectoral fins for good growth potential. Thick tail tube is also a good sign. Make sure there are no defects or signs of disease on the fish.
      F'ubba

    2. #2
      Ray Jordan is offline The Rocket
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      OK Let's try this. Using Art's excellent description of what to look for when buying a Sanke select the one from the following set of photo's that you believe has the best change of developing into a top quality Sanke and also the pick one that you think has the worse chance of becoming a top quality Sanke. Most important state why. Hint all these baby sankes are from the same spawning. And yes, I have the follow up photo's at three years old.
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    3. #3
      emmalou is offline Inactivated
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      A best
      I like the look of a patteren that could emerge. The shape is nice. Guess for me it.s the promise of sumi that would make this a nice sanke.






      B worst
      I don't see much sumi coming up or even below the surface to make this koi stand out as a nice sanke? Seems to be all hi right now.

      And this is form a real novice...

    4. #4
      jnorth is offline Senior Member
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      I'll take a stab at picking for future potential. "A" then "B". "C" and "D" are already too "finished". Of course I'm not very good at this so go easy.

    5. #5
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      I agree with jnorth, A then B. My hardwater seems to bring out an abundance of sumai, so I tend to pick tosai with less sumai. However, I am very new at this and my history of picking Koi is extremely suspect.

      Carl_H
      Amarillo Koi Society

    6. #6
      vipldy's Avatar
      vipldy is offline The Fish Whisperer
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      I like c but you say its to finished?

      Marie
      Marie

      Have You Hugged Your Koi Today Ruby's Keeper


    7. #7
      Koi-Toys is offline Senior Member
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      "Buy the red, bet on the black..." I am going with "C". It has a strong kohaku pattern that will allow for some growing. It has well placed shoulder sumi that helps to break up the large first hi plate. It also fits the percentages from Dr. Lembke's direction. It seems a little unbalanced in the rear, but the three small shoulder sumis combine or just grow, that would balance it's rear.

      For worse, I'll go out on a limb and say "A". I imagine this fish to grow into a large white fish with little spots of hi- not a good kohaku pattern so it can never be a good sanke.

      Ok Ray, I'm ready to learn !

      ~Raymond.

    8. #8
      gander's Avatar
      gander is online now Supporting Member ~ WWKC BOD ~ 2018 KPOTY
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      I aint worried aboout the future I amight not be there. I like d
      "most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song
      still in them."
      I wish I could sing

      OK.TN.




    9. #9
      jnorth is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by vipldy
      I like c but you say its to finished?

      Marie
      Well I'm basing it being too finished because the question was which one to get for the future. C has alot of sumi that looks ink black already so it will fade in the future. A and B's sumi is still developing so as the Koi gows larger the sumi will rise to the surface. The idea being that the sumi will finish when the koi is much larger. Mind you this is what I have read and not from years of experience.

    10. #10
      Ray Jordan is offline The Rocket
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      I will post the photo's of these koi at three years of age in the morning. Last chance to make your best and worse selections. Bonus question which are male and which are female.

    11. #11
      jnorth is offline Senior Member
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      ac female bd male

    12. #12
      koistory2 is offline Huggy Bear
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      I would pick A,B,C,D A&C being female.
      The way to make a woman happy is to give her what she wants 24 Hrs. before she knows she wants it.

    13. #13
      Koin-Onia is offline Koi Kowboy
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      a,c,d,b

      Females A,c
      Male b,D

      B does not have the nice Hi or red that I would desire as a kohaku pattern if there were more hi I would pick it.
      The Great Smoky Mountains Koi Club

    14. #14
      emmalou is offline Inactivated
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      A C females

    15. #15
      Cowiche Ponder's Avatar
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      I like A thought the hi isn't as balanced as c might be, I also think C is too finished at this point as is d. My 2nd pick would be b though I don't like the hi pattern there is promising sumi hiding on the white that could balance it out later. 3rd pick d over c as it's sumi is in smaller patches. c to me looks like a showa that didn't get black menware

      a,c female, b,d male

      but how much does this person know? sqat lol

      can't wait to see the pics of later

    16. #16
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      I would chose c, betting it's female. Best kohaku pattern although I prefer the sumi on d. Can't wait to see how they developed.
      sarah

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    17. #17
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      A is my best, C is my worst. A/B my guess female. C/D my guess male.
      males tend to color quicker show sumi sooner. females lag in color development. Body shape, hard to tell on smaller koi.


      #7
      Rick

    18. #18
      Ray Jordan is offline The Rocket
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      OK, Here are the photo's at three years old compared to their photo's at one year old. Are you still happy with your initial selections for best and worst?

      Which one would win a a show based the these photo's at three years old? Do you think A is still a tategoi (will get better) or will never finish? What did you learn from this series of photo's.
      Attached Images Attached Images   

    19. #19
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      koidoc is offline Here Comes The Judge!
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      Talking Sanke Tosai

      The order I select is C,D,A,B
      C is best now and has best pattern. Sumi is best placed and proportioned. Only one with good Kata Sumi except A. C is only one I would try if started buying tosai(not). A- may be less distracting later when black fills in,but it lacks Hi balance. D came in second because of Hi but the sumi is too heavy and to loaded to the back. Not good Kata Sumi here. B just does not have a chance on anything.
      Best is wait till the 3 year old pictures come out and buy then. Then also would be sure on sex. All had good bodies as tosai so could not pick based on that.

    20. #20
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      koidoc is offline Here Comes The Judge!
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      Talking Three year olds

      As predicted C was the only one to have a chance. B however improved enough, even with the bare Hi center to make it to second place. D is still finshed but as predicted the black became too powerful. A is now the weakest.
      So now C,B,D,A

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